Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #71  October 19,2011, 1:15pm
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Reverse_Dragon wrote :
What... precisely... is a soul? What are its properties? How does it differ from the mind? How can you look for something if you don't know what it is?
This is a great question. Thanks for asking. I will put forth my best effort to explain my views on the topic.

Merriam-Webster defines the soul as the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual (self-aware) life.

Plato, drawing on the words of his teacher Socrates, considered the soul the essence of a person, being that which decides how we behave. He considered the essence to be an incorporeal, eternal occupant of our being. (Wikipedia)

Here’s my definition. The Primacy of Consciousness implies that consciousness takes primacy over existence. Said differently, it suggests that without consciousness the existence of anything (matter, energy, space and time) is irrelevant. Consciousness is experienced through thought; therefore, thought is the basis of existence and the media through which we are self-aware.

I believe the reason the soul appears so illusive is because we are accustomed to thinking two-dimensionally. That is, we are convinced that a thing must have material properties in order to be real. Obviously thoughts have material consequences, but a single thought has no mass or physical energy aside from the electrochemical reaction it produces in our brains. Further, the same thought or idea may produce a similar reaction when experienced by a different person, but it will not be identical. The thought itself is “nothing” what makes it real is the mind (soul) it incubates within.

When thoughts are recorded in a book they possess a kind of potential but it cannot be measured in joules, watts, or horsepower. The potential organized thought possesses can only be realized within a living soul.

Since we are treading in an area where there are few terms to accurately describe these ideas we may have to invent some new ones. Let me say that the soul is what science has attributed as the “emergence” of consciousness. Perhaps, the best example I can currently give is a comparison between a computer program, the input fed into the program, and the computer itself. The computer is analogous to our body because it is composed of matter and requires energy to sustain it. The input fed into the program is the physical world. The program is our soul containing complex recursive subroutines, dynamic arrays, and error correction (feedback).

The difference between the mind and the soul is more than just semantics. The mind is believed to be a consequence of our biology. On the other hand, the soul is purely non-physical. It is believed that the soul can exist independent of the body. Of course, this is where the burden of proof comes in. Science recognizes the existence of the mind, but not the existence of the soul. Science does not have to assert that if the body dies so does the mind because that appears to be more than evident. However, I believe that as our knowledge of the mind, self-awareness, and quantum physics increases it will become apparent that the mind and the soul are synonymous and the mind does indeed survive the cessation of our physical existence. What happens if you remove the power from a computer? Does the computer’s program continue to exist? Yes it does as a concept. The program may no longer be able to manipulate the matter the machine is made of but the program still exists. Who is to say that if a program was self-aware it would not continue to experience within itself even though the hardware has been shut down?
 
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Reverse_Dragon is offline Reverse_Dragon Post #72  October 19,2011, 1:34pm
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Ooooohhh... Lot's to think about there Diana. I'm not familiar with the Primacy of Consciousness concept... let me read up on that and I'll get back to you.
 
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harnomygirl is offline harnomygirl Post #73  October 19,2011, 2:56pm
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Diana_P wrote :
Who is to say that if a program was self-aware it would not continue to experience within itself even though the hardware has been shut down?
Awesome. Never leave this site.
 
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Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #74  October 20,2011, 4:57pm
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harnomygirl wrote :
Awesome. Never leave this site.
Thanks Harnomygirl.
 
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hermes01 is offline hermes01 Post #75  October 22,2011, 1:16am
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'Consciousness is experienced through thought'

May we suggest it is the other way round?

Without consciousness....we cannot become aware of the thought...
 
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Reverse_Dragon is offline Reverse_Dragon Post #76  November 17,2011, 2:19pm
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Diana, you have given me a great deal to ponder.

To borrow your computer analogy: People talk about artificial intelligence, implying that we may some day create computers that are self aware and intelligent. Many of my colleagues in information technology tell me that this has already been achieved.

There are computers capable of computations far beyond the abilities of any human, and even computers that possess a sense of themselves, their surroundings, and the consequences of their behaviors.

So if we already have AI... do they have souls?

No.

No computer anywhere, ever... has performed any action it was not implicitly instructed to perform by a human. So what we are really lacking is not artificial intelligence... but artificial will. How do you make a computer want to do something on its own?

I don't know. Could it be that it's impossible? That without the 'animating force' of a soul no machine can ever be truly alive? We arrive at the overlap of philosophy and science, and my training tells me to await more data.

But it is sure fascinating.
 
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Angelkrista is offline Angelkrista Post #77  November 17,2011, 7:54pm
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shapeShifter79 wrote :
The alternative to "I don't know" is "There must be a magical being who did it"? To humanity's credit, we no longer believe eclipses nor the movement of "heavenly" bodies across the sky require divine intervention.
This is a wonderful thread. Just to throw out there this is one of the most respectful, insightful, and mature threads I have ever seen on this subject! Bravo all!

I quote the above because that is something I am dealing with in my own life. Not my personal beliefs, but in trying to raise a child in a world that predominately expresses a belief in a deity.

One of the things I have to deal with concerning my son is the "I don't know" factor. I do get that, especially for one as young as himself (6), any answer is better than a lack of one. I understand why religion and the belief in the afterlife are so important to people.

It can be so challenging, humbling, and terrifying to consider that there is nothing beyond what we know. It was one of the most challenging mental changes I have ever experienced.

What I try to express to my son is that, no matter what anyone may claim, no one knows!

I don't personally think there is conscious life after death. But, I really have no idea. As far as I know, this is the only life I have lived and I have no reason to assume there is more. I can't concern myself with that, since regardless of what is true, there isn't much I can do about it now.

I simply try to live my life to the best of my abilities until I am unable to any longer.

I have to wonder, how would anyones life change if they knew one way or the other?
Last edited by Angelkrista; November 17,2011 at 10:36pm. Reason: missing a letter
 
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Reverse_Dragon is offline Reverse_Dragon Post #78  November 21,2011, 2:56pm
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Angelkrista wrote :
This is a wonderful thread. Just to throw out there this is one of the most respectful, insightful, and mature threads I have ever seen on this subject! Bravo all!

I'm blushing on behalf of everyone. Thanks!
I simply try to live my life to the best of my abilities until I am unable to any longer.

The essence of wisdom. Well done.

I have to wonder, how would anyones life change if they knew one way or the other?
Now THIS is a great question. I'll have to think about this one.
 
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Angelkrista is offline Angelkrista Post #79  November 22,2011, 4:41am
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Angelkrista wrote :
I simply try to live my life to the best of my abilities until I am unable to any longer.
Reverse_Dragon wrote :
The essence of wisdom. Well done.
My turn to blush

Angelkrista wrote :
I have to wonder, how would anyones life change if they knew one way or the other?
Reverse_Dragon wrote :
Now THIS is a great question. I'll have to think about this one.
Please do! I would love to hear your thoughts!
 
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insertscreenname is offline insertscreenname Post #80  December 21,2011, 3:34am
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Yes, there is life after death, I will prove it.



Please carry on.
 
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