A question of faith versus works for believers?


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Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #1  September 11,2011, 6:45pm
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Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

James 2:14-17
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so, faith if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

The way I see it you must be saved by grace and accompany that grace with works. What say you?
 
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olneyjeeps is offline olneyjeeps Post #2  September 12,2011, 7:44am
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Diana_P wrote :
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

James 2:14-17
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so, faith if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

The way I see it you must be saved by grace and accompany that grace with works. What say you?
wrote :
Can that faith save him?
What I think people miss from in this is derivative of their narrow definition of "saved". If the definition of "saved" is that food and clothing will miraculously appear on their doorstep? Sorry, bit of a shocker, don't hold your breath. If it is a chance to see free of worldly definitions of glory, I think so. I find it curious and sad that it takes a "traumatic" experience for most people to get a glimpse of what is important. Ten years later (9/11) it is evident how people allow themselves to slide back towards selfishness. Want to see faith and the grace it imparts? My Brain injury video (Shaun and Mark) - YouTube Watch a couple or the related videos. If you think you know how/why someone is the way you are, you are probably severely mistaken. Wonder, and contemplate the question "how may I serve you" and you are contemplating "how may I serve God."

Peace is not in believing what comes next, but knowing. The hard part? Not allowing yourself to forget and stray from what is right. No matter what "reason" they give you to hate them, love your neighbor. Appreciate the beauty in everything. Love everything, not just including, but especially what you fear and what you think hurts you. The hardest lessons are great, for we learn from them. Hopefully we learn to forgive and Love.

Telling others what is "right" does not work; demonstrating does.

Peace, Namaste (I bow to you)
 
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harnomygirl is offline harnomygirl Post #3  September 12,2011, 9:59am
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olneyjeeps wrote :
Telling others what is "right" does not work; demonstrating does.

Peace, Namaste (I bow to you)
Does that mean you should give the poor guy food or words?
 
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olneyjeeps is offline olneyjeeps Post #4  September 12,2011, 9:04pm
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harnomygirl wrote :
Does that mean you should give the poor guy food or words?
Everything is case specific. I do not believe in enabling. Forget how it goes, but something to effect "give a man bread and you have given him a meal. Teach him to fish and you have given him food for life"
There is plenty of work and plenty of food, far to many are to proud to get dirty or wear used clothes.

Food or words? How about a kick in the backside?
 
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harnomygirl is offline harnomygirl Post #5  September 13,2011, 5:09am
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olneyjeeps wrote :
Everything is case specific. I do not believe in enabling. Forget how it goes, but something to effect "give a man bread and you have given him a meal. Teach him to fish and you have given him food for life"
There is plenty of work and plenty of food, far to many are to proud to get dirty or wear used clothes.

Food or words? How about a kick in the backside?
If someone taught me how to fish, I'd like them to be nice about it. I can't learn anything from anyone who thinks I'm a loser and wants to kick me in the backside. That's probably typical.

In fact, I think that attitude is a lot like boasting, and what we are supposed to avoid.
 
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Creostone is offline Creostone Post #6  September 13,2011, 6:09am
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I can say to my kids I love you and if I don’t give them a hug once in a while I am sure there is a lost on info in my words when I say I love you and I won’t show then too. God said to believe in your heart AND confess with your mouth. Your words are with no or very little effect if you can not show it. If Christians have a heart for the lost, then you just can’t say it and mean. We must become doers of what we say.
I witness on the streets and so my actions show that I am concerned with the lost.
Believing in God is not good all by itself. Even Satan believes and he trembles at his very Name. I see too many phew sitters that talk the talk but can’t walk the walk. My question is, are you a phew sitter, or are you a doer? If we are to be effective in anything we must do both. Talk and walk or it will be in vane. Can you imagine on your date or with your wife you say I love you! Then you go and sit to watch TV. It’s ok sometimes but continue to do this day after day and see if it wont effect your relationship.
We know the Word teaches us we can not be saved my works alone. The reason for this is because we are all sinners. It is true. This is why I gave my life to Christ. I am not perfect but forgiven. We all have done good things in life but God does not see who does better works but who is willing to be doers in general. We can do all the good works we want to do but we are still saved by grace and grace alone. Your one sin can keep you from heaven but a sinner who sins all his life can do one good thing (called conversion) and that one act will save him if it was done in Christ of course.
 
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olneyjeeps is offline olneyjeeps Post #7  September 13,2011, 3:39pm
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harnomygirl wrote :
If someone taught me how to fish, I'd like them to be nice about it. I can't learn anything from anyone who thinks I'm a loser and wants to kick me in the backside. That's probably typical.

In fact, I think that attitude is a lot like boasting, and what we are supposed to avoid.
Not for me to define who is a loser. Teaching to fish and kicking in backside are metaphorical up to a point... if you were someone I do not know who insisted on siting on corner all day with a "feed me" sigh, that is your choice... if you were my child, yes I would (eventually) kick you in the rear. Some people need to be "slapped upside the head" to get them out of their pity party.
 
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harnomygirl is offline harnomygirl Post #8  September 14,2011, 6:03am
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olneyjeeps wrote :
Peace is not in believing what comes next, but knowing. The hard part? Not allowing yourself to forget and stray from what is right. No matter what "reason" they give you to hate them, love your neighbor. Appreciate the beauty in everything. Love everything, not just including, but especially what you fear and what you think hurts you. The hardest lessons are great, for we learn from them. Hopefully we learn to forgive and Love.

Telling others what is "right" does not work; demonstrating does.
I guess this ^^^ sums up what you mean. It's hard to see how you could love your neighbor and be unkind so you're probably not. I think I understand why you'd take it on a case by case basis.

Great video. It was nice of that family to share it.
 
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