Ethics of Separated and on eH


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sawtooth is offline sawtooth Post #1  July 16,2011, 11:17am
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If a match tells you in OC that they're separated, what does that reveal about their general ethics? I see two issues--

1. At some point they checked a box on eH that asked their status: single, married, separated, or divorced and chose an answer that they knew not to be true. But, how is this any different than when you install software and click accept that you have "Read and agree to all the terms and conditions" when you haven't?

2. If it's a deal-breaker for someone, that means they wasted someone's time on stages 1-3 of guided communication. But, how is this any different than not revealing your chronic illness until the third date? In fact, in that case if it's a dealbreaker you've wasted far more of their time and money and perhaps even hurt them emotionally, if they're the sort who bonds quickly.

From a general ethical perspective, is this a red or yellow flag? What about the other two cases I mentioned?

PS - I'm not asking whether one should date or report such a person--that's separate and already covered in many threads.
 
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Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #2  July 17,2011, 8:18am
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I’m not sure I understand your question. Are you asking how I would feel if someone concealed that they were separated?

Hmmm?

On an ethical level it would certainly be at the very least a yellow flag.

People who are in the process of a divorce are experiencing all kinds of conflicting emotions so there could be any number of reasons for not being forthwith about their status. Ethically it is kind of a gray area for me. I suppose how I would react would depend upon the circumstances.
 
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TheThinker is offline TheThinker Post #3  July 17,2011, 8:42am
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sawtooth wrote :
If a match tells you in OC that they're separated, what does that reveal about their general ethics? I see two issues--

1. At some point they checked a box on eH that asked their status: single, married, separated, or divorced and chose an answer that they knew not to be true. But, how is this any different than when you install software and click accept that you have "Read and agree to all the terms and conditions" when you haven't?

2. If it's a deal-breaker for someone, that means they wasted someone's time on stages 1-3 of guided communication. But, how is this any different than not revealing your chronic illness until the third date? In fact, in that case if it's a dealbreaker you've wasted far more of their time and money and perhaps even hurt them emotionally, if they're the sort who bonds quickly.

From a general ethical perspective, is this a red or yellow flag? What about the other two cases I mentioned?

PS - I'm not asking whether one should date or report such a person--that's separate and already covered in many threads.
The first thing that it means is that they are in violation of the rules of EH...
The second thing it means is that they are still technically married.
...and the third thing I take away from it is, that their hasn't been sufficient time for them to be alone, and "grow" as an individual...and being alone and on your own is usually how this is best accomplished.

IOW, there's a greater chance that they'll be "on the rebound"...

It may mean that they are not over their ex, also...at least some may separate, and then they end up getting back together with their ex, rare, but it happens...
Most people who are divorced rarely get back with their ex.

wrote :
But, how is this any different than not revealing your chronic illness until the third date?
How is it different??
a chronic illness happens by no one's fault...and they are not breaking the rules of EH by signing up..at least none that I'm aware of..
Last edited by TheThinker; July 17,2011 at 8:48am.
 
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sawtooth is offline sawtooth Post #4  July 17,2011, 9:25am
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TheThinker wrote :
The first thing that it means is that they are in violation of the rules of EH...

and they are not breaking the rules of EH by signing up..
From an ethical perspective, rule-breaking seems uncompelling.

First, driving over the speed limit violates the rules of an even higher power. And yet, almost nobody would look at a date as ethically wrong or raise a yellow or red flag for driving 5-10 mph over the highway speed limit in a safe manner.

Second, our society has a heritage of disobeying rules we do not agree with (Rosa Parks, Mohammad Ali, Boston Tea Party) sometimes overtly and sometimes coverty. We look unfavorably upon those who just follow orders and rules blindly.

I think ethical problems lie more in misrepresenting themselves to eH and their matches as to the nature of their marital status.
Last edited by sawtooth; July 17,2011 at 9:28am.
 
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sawtooth is offline sawtooth Post #5  July 17,2011, 9:38am
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wrote :
a chronic illness happens by no one's fault...
The fault of a status (separation, chronic illness, height, age) is not relevant to the ethics of lying, hiding, or revealing them.

If odds are, you will die within ten years, that's completely relevant when deciding whether I want you to be my life partner... or not. By withholding this detail, a lie of omission, you're showing me a similar lack of respect by potentially wasting my time, money, and emotions going on dates with you. Just as in the marital status case.
Last edited by sawtooth; July 17,2011 at 9:41am.
 
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TheThinker is offline TheThinker Post #6  July 17,2011, 9:51am
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sawtooth wrote :
From an ethical perspective, rule-breaking seems uncompelling.

First, driving over the speed limit violates the rules of an even higher power. And yet, almost nobody would look at a date as ethically wrong or raise a yellow or red flag for driving 5-10 mph over the highway speed limit in a safe manner.

Second, our society has a heritage of disobeying rules we do not agree with (Rosa Parks, Mohammad Ali, Boston Tea Party) sometimes overtly and sometimes coverty. We look unfavorably upon those who just follow orders and rules blindly.

I think ethical problems lie more in misrepresenting themselves to eH and their matches as to the nature of their marital status.
you can argue the ethics of this all you want, but I'll pay you the courtesy of being blunt here...
You signed a contract.
do you understand that?
and by violating the rules of that contract(by being separated..and not divorced)and if found out, you'll be shown the door.
Now you can go on a tirade about how unfair this is...how "societies rules have changed"...
but this isn't a democracy...EH is a private business...one that doesn't accept public funding, taxes, etc.. to help pay for its existence...and just like "at will" employment policies, you're free to leave whenever you want, also.

Hope that's clear enough for you.
 
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TheThinker is offline TheThinker Post #7  July 17,2011, 9:58am
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sawtooth wrote :
The fault of a status (separation, chronic illness, height, age) is not relevant to the ethics of lying, hiding, or revealing them.

If odds are, you will die within ten years, that's completely relevant when deciding whether I want you to be my life partner... or not. By withholding this detail, a lie of omission, you're showing me a similar lack of respect by potentially wasting my time, money, and emotions going on dates with you. Just as in the marital status case.
You asked me what the differences are, and I told you them.
I gave you facts...you've given me opinions.
You seem to want to prove your case as to why you think this is so similar...

I'd suggest you take that up with EH and then see how far you get with your argument.
in the meantime, I'll be happy to leave the light on whilst you go tilting at windmills.
 
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sawtooth is offline sawtooth Post #8  July 17,2011, 9:59am
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Diana_P wrote :
Are you asking how I would feel if someone concealed that they were separated? Hmmm?

Diana, thanks for responding. I have met few matches who I could say 100% clearly represented themselves. In most cases there is some exaggeration, concealment, or misrepresentation going on either in the profiles or in the flirting.

The general sentiment seems to be "It's okay if you don't directly lie". But why is a lie wrong? Because it misrepresents reality to another person, causing them to take actions not in accordance with reality, e.g. (buying dinner for someone they'd never date). Concealment and exaggeration have the same effect.

wrote :
On an ethical level it would certainly be at the very least a yellow flag.

Would all misrepresented, concealed, or exaggerated details that are likely to be a deal-breaker fall into the same category--photos that hide something or are out-of-date, chronic illnesses, height, age, interests they've only tried once or twice?

wrote :
Ethically it is kind of a gray area for me. I suppose how I would react would depend upon the circumstances.
That makes perfect sense to me--the earlier they reveal it, the less of a wrong they've commited upon you, no?

I mean, if they slip it into a stage 3 question or answer you've wasted almost no time, money, or thought on them. If they tell you after you became intimate you may be furious.
 
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sawtooth is offline sawtooth Post #9  July 17,2011, 10:04am
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TheThinker wrote :
you can argue the ethics of this all you want, but I'll pay you the courtesy of being blunt here...
You signed a contract.
do you understand that?
and by violating the rules of that contract(by being separated..and not divorced)and if found out, you'll be shown the door.
This isn't the question I posed and not of any particular interest--I don't care if my separated matches eventually lose $50 and I don't believe they were greatly concerned either. Any more than you or I are greatly concerned when we do drive 5-10mph over the speed limit on the highway. You do keep an eye out for cops, of course. And we may not be overjoyed when that day eventually comes.

I asked questions about the ethics of it.
Last edited by sawtooth; July 17,2011 at 10:08am.
 
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lunabeach is offline lunabeach Post #10  July 17,2011, 10:09am
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...
sawtooth wrote :

1. At some point they checked a box on eH that asked their status: single, married, separated, or divorced and chose an answer that they knew not to be true. But, how is this any different than when you install software and click accept that you have "Read and agree to all the terms and conditions" when you haven't?

Interesting that you bring up the software thing - it is similar. With both you must comply in some way to have a contract with the company. However, you won't be building a relationship with the software company; the software company isn't a person whose time is wasted or feelings are hurt by the lie.

If you use software in a way that it is not intended, you still face consequences if it is found out - whether or not you actually read all the conditions. Since it IS breaking the rules, I report men who tell me they're separated - if I wanted to date someone who was still legally married, I would use a different site.

2. If it's a deal-breaker for someone, that means they wasted someone's time on stages 1-3 of guided communication. But, how is this any different than not revealing your chronic illness until the third date? In fact, in that case if it's a dealbreaker you've wasted far more of their time and money and perhaps even hurt them emotionally, if they're the sort who bonds quickly.

Someone shouldn't be bonding in stages 1-3 . I'm annoyed by time wasters. I'm not annoyed by people with illnesses/disabilities - they don't have control over their status and do what they can. I sympathize with that. People with medical issues have always told me during communication stages or after a first meet - I wouldn't be thrilled by a major revelation on a third date.

From a general ethical perspective, is this a red or yellow flag? What about the other two cases I mentioned?

Revealing it in communication isn't great, but is more acceptable than revealing it a month in. I would still have no interest in dating that person because I don't believe someone can be fully involved with me while legally and financially (and most likely, at less than a year in my state, emotionally) entangled with his wife but I suppose being relatively upfront about it would make it a "yellow" flag.
Last edited by lunabeach; July 17,2011 at 10:23am.
 
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