Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #1  July 15,2011, 2:03pm
Diana_P's Avatar

Board Leader - Religion & Spirituality

Joined: Sep 2010

Posts: 1,118

See profile

Do people choose to believe or not believe in God or is our inclination for Spiritual things a product of our genetics and environment?
 
  Reply With Quote
llw11 is offline llw11 Post #2  July 15,2011, 6:13pm
llw11's Avatar

Pacesetter

Joined: Mar 2011

Posts: 320

See profile

NO!!! BELIEF IS NOT A CHOICE!! (not yelling at you but don't really know how else to emphasize this on the internet, ). i know lots of christians will come and claim otherwise but deep down they know choice is not subject to the will. choice is much like feelings and love. we can't choose to believe anymore than we can choose vanilla over chocolate or loving one over another. you can make an "intellectual decision" but that doesn't mean that its really what you want in your heart (that's the important part). i immigrated to canada and no matter how much i've tried, i just can't sit, watch and like hockey like everyone else..just can't do it. i can literally sit and watch and yell and scream like everyone but that doesn't mean that i don't wish to be elsewhere or watching and yelling and screaming about cricket instead. anyway, back to religion..i've prayed to god many times over the years to make me WANT to love and serve him and enjoy going to church as i can't do it on my own but it just never happened and can't happen that way..no way no how, sorry, . now i've just accepted that i'm not made to be that way and i'm happier for it.
 
  Reply With Quote
hermes01 is offline hermes01 Post #3  July 16,2011, 12:13am
hermes01's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Nov 2010

Posts: 134

See profile

Maybe the question can be put another way.

If we choose....................who or what is choosing?

Fear...desire.......memory.......'brain washing'?

We ARE.....sperm and ovum.............and they carry memory............
 
  Reply With Quote
llw11 is offline llw11 Post #4  July 16,2011, 6:01am
llw11's Avatar

Pacesetter

Joined: Mar 2011

Posts: 320

See profile

hermes01 wrote :
We ARE.....sperm and ovum.............and they carry memory............
do they??
 
  Reply With Quote
hermes01 is offline hermes01 Post #5  July 16,2011, 6:43am
hermes01's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Nov 2010

Posts: 134

See profile

As far as I can remember..........
 
  Reply With Quote
sawtooth is offline sawtooth Post #6  July 17,2011, 11:14am
sawtooth's Avatar

Newbie

Joined: Jul 2011

Posts: 12

See profile

Diana, that's key to Pascal's wager, and the answer for many is no--

Doxastic voluntarism
Doxastic voluntarism is the philosophical position that one has voluntary control over one's beliefs. That is, one can change their beliefs by will and thought alone, implying that we can freely choose to believe or disbelieve anything at will. Note that this isn't about the ability to change a belief - as changing attitudes, maturity or new evidence can lead to a change of mind - but that such an action can be done wilfully at any arbitrary point. Doxastic voluntarism implies that one could change which god their believed in just by walking into a different church.

Pascal's wager
A form of doxastic voluntarism is presumed by Pascal's Wager, which states that it is preferable to believe in God because of the potential outcomes. The wager presumes that God rewards belief just for the sake of belief, but it also requires one to have free reign to control whether they accept the Christian God or not. In practice, many people don't find this to be the case. For example, an atheist can no more willingly and arbitrarily start believing in God than than they could believe that grass is a funny shade of orange. Similarly, committed believers cannot force themselves to disbelieve something. Because of the lack of perfect free will in this situation, Pascal's attempt to coax people into belief through his wager falls at the first hurdle - someone could, at best, only "fake" their belief in God and not truly feel it.
 
  Reply With Quote
Reverse_Dragon is offline Reverse_Dragon Post #7  August 9,2011, 7:17am
Reverse_Drago…'s Avatar

w00t w00t! I is getting married! Success at last.

Enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2011

Louisville, KY

Posts: 693

See profile

Fantastically well put sawtooth.

Let me tack in from a different angle.

I am an atheist, my mother is a southern baptist bible scholar. She is constantly telling me I will go to hell and so forth. Let's propose that I become scared by this and 'decide' to become a christian.

I start telling people I'm christian, and that I believe in god. I even tell myself that, over and over again. Eventually I may even start to believe that I believe.

But the truth is I would be living a lie. Deep down, my brain just doesn't accept the God postulate. Feigning belief in it out of fear, or social obligation, or even good intentions would simply be self-delusion.

And if it turned out that god did in fact exist, how could he not see through such a blatant lie? This argument is sort of the inverse of Pascal's wager.
 
  Reply With Quote
Matayu is offline Matayu Post #8  August 9,2011, 10:54am
Matayu's Avatar

Newbie

Joined: Aug 2011

Posts: 5

See profile

Diana_P wrote :
Do people choose to believe or not believe in God or is our inclination for Spiritual things a product of our genetics and environment?
We have a choice, that is clear. For the first 12 years of my life I was indoctrinated into the Mormon faith. Through a soul-shattering series of events too lengthy and depressing to convey here, I lost that faith. I did at one time believe, feel, and accept god, Jesus, and the holy spirit. I knew there was a god.

I am an atheist now. I understand that the mind confuses correlation with causation. The love I felt, and thought was caused by god, was merely the love I received from a community that accepted me. I believed in god and felt love, they were correlated, so I thought one must cause the other. When I was removed from that community, I no longer felt that love, even though I kept faith in god. This would slowly tear me apart from the inside until my final conversation with god, where, drenched in my tears and drowning in sorrow, I cried for salvation. I received silence.

From there, it was mere years before I turned my back on all religion, gods, spirituality, and pseudo-science. I live a life, quite happily, knowing that there is no god.
 
  Reply With Quote
shapeShifter79 is offline shapeShifter79 Post #9  August 9,2011, 11:03am
shapeShifter7…'s Avatar

likes dancing!

Board Leader: Health & Wellness

Joined: Apr 2011

CA

Posts: 2,499

See profile

Matayu wrote :
I cried for salvation. I received silence... I live a life, quite happily, knowing that there is no god.
What a strange conclusion. A moment ago I said, "Barrack Obama, come here." He did not come here. To conclude Obama does not exist based on that evidence would be foolish. That would be true even if I used a loudspeaker outside the White House. An alternative explanation--Obama exists but he didn't hear me or has better things to do than to answer.
Last edited by shapeShifter79; August 9,2011 at 11:12am.
 
  Reply With Quote
Reverse_Dragon is offline Reverse_Dragon Post #10  August 11,2011, 9:50am
Reverse_Drago…'s Avatar

w00t w00t! I is getting married! Success at last.

Enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2011

Louisville, KY

Posts: 693

See profile

What a strange conclusion. A moment ago I said, "Barrack Obama, come here." He did not come here. To conclude Obama does not exist based on that evidence would be foolish. That would be true even if I used a loudspeaker outside the White House. An alternative explanation--Obama exists but he didn't hear me or has better things to do than to answer.
Reducto ad absurdiam.
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply
  • Page 1 of 2
  • 1
  • 2


Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Topics
Topic Topic Starter Board Replies Last Post
Female Choice ANDR3W let's talk about sex 139 May 28,2011 9:13am
Addiction: a choice or an illness? scandalous What makes us tick? 21 April 3,2010 8:11am

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“ Excellent, thank you. I think I will leave out the first part, I think it is unnecessary information to give him. I'm not interested in putting myself out there like that and it might be a little ... ” –  generallyyou

Join the “Ending a friendship” discussion

“Alfred Hitchcock - 18 Steven Spielberg - 62 *notice what?” –  dmi

Join the “War of the Directors” discussion

“ I would be "certain people" :P The issue isn't a deal-breaker, but a very strong factor preference-wise, for me.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “How much does race play in your dating someone?” discussion

“Love Texas Hold'em!.. I'm thinking of trying another tournament this summer...not sure yet though.. Never entered a tournament before, outside of online ones. Personally I prefer to play with ... ” –  Freezepop

Join the “Favorite Card Game” discussion

“Make that 3! I also had a crush on Donny Osmond. I think I still have a record or two of his. Suzie ” –  legend29

Join the “Robin Gibbs Dead at 62...How Deep is Your Love?” discussion

“Oh, my revised profile can be seen in the forum in the section where you can ask for a profile review. Suzanne” –  SuzanneScorpio

Join the “Photo Review” discussion

“Just remember, everything that you are feeling and/or are capable of he is as well. If he wanted to reach you, he could. Right now he knows that you are hurting, and that this is not what you ... ” –  lynntlb78

Join the “Can I wait and move on at the same time?” discussion

“ Yohio. And the shortened form (Anya) is nice too.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “Where is Becky?!?” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:36am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0