Would You Vote For An Atheist For President?


Reply
 
Topic Tools Search this Thread
AudioDad is offline AudioDad Post #1  July 13,2011, 10:28am
AudioDad's Avatar

...has left the building

Enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2008

Posts: 800

See profile

Another presidential election year is rapidly approaching. While the Democratic field of candidates is likely to remain limited to president Obama, the Republican candidates and their positions are quite varied. Suppose we were to throw in another factor (for either party). If your party nominated an otherwise well qualified candidate to run for president, who was also an atheist, would you vote that person?

 The Gallup polling organization has been asking Americans this very question for decades and, while the numbers have varied over the years, the number of respondents answering 'no' to that question has consistently remained near or over 50%. A sampling of the those saying they would not vote for an otherwise qualified atheist over time:

 2007: 53%
1999: 48%
1987: 48%
1983: 51%
1978: 53%
1959: 74%
1958: 77%

 This despite the fact that the Constitution clearly states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States" (Article 6, paragraph 3), and that the oath of the Office of President - the only actual oath spelled out in the constitution - does not contain the phrase "so help me God" nor any requirement to swear on a bible.

Putting all that aside for the moment, would you vote for an otherwise qualified candidate if he or she were an atheist? Why or why not?
 
  Reply With Quote
rix is offline rix Post #2  July 14,2011, 2:15pm
rix's Avatar

Happy 1st Anniversary, babe!

Veteran

Joined: Mar 2008

Cascadia

Posts: 1,388

See profile

I am reminded of an early MASH episode where Henry Blake was on trial for less than military conduct. And when the charge was read against him for having a transvestite in his unit, Henry Blake replied; "Well, I never pry into a man's religion, Sir!"

I am also more concerned about a candidate's ability and their position on the issues, than their particular metaphysical beliefs, or lack thereof. I would equally be concerned with a Religious Right or Evangelical Left candidate who strove to institute a theocracy ( such as a James Dobson or Al Sharpton), as I would with a Lenin who sought to deprive the masses of their religious "superstitions" by statist means.

Therefore, I would also look for civility (as opposed to the polarization that now primarily exists) in a candidate, and their sworn duty to uphold the Bill of Rights in respecting the freedom of belief (or lack thereof) for all.

However, while Europe is open to electing a candidate who runs openly as an atheist or agnostic; in America, failure to at least pay lip service to Christendom ( I'm talking in Kierkegaardian categories, again ) would be political suicide [ for further discussion see the thread "Freedom of Religion" in the Progressive Christianity group].

{Then again, holding certain beliefs can affect policy and have particular consequences. I am reminded of James Watt, former Reagan staffer, who once replied (in essence): "Who cares about the environment; Christ is returning soon anyways!" And then, there are the pretrib, premillenial, dispensationalists who believe that the Jewish Temple must be restored to its former glory on the same site that The Dome of the Rock mosque now occupies. And since some Religious Right fundies hold this view, this particular belief could have serious implications regarding Middle Eastern policy.}
Last edited by rix; July 14,2011 at 2:41pm. Reason: { Afterthought}
 
  Reply With Quote
hermes01 is offline hermes01 Post #3  July 14,2011, 11:56pm
hermes01's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Nov 2010

Posts: 134

See profile

Did Bush believe in God when he invaded Iraq....................ending in the death and misery of millions?

Better an atheist..in that case...............
Atheist...A Theist?
 
  Reply With Quote
sawtooth is offline sawtooth Post #4  July 17,2011, 11:17am
sawtooth's Avatar

Newbie

Joined: Jul 2011

Posts: 12

See profile

wrote :
Putting all that aside for the moment, would you vote for an otherwise qualified candidate if he or she were an atheist? Why or why not?

Yes, if they had a reasonable shot at winning. I care more about a candidate's plans for the country than their religious beliefs.
 
  Reply With Quote
charmingphlsphr is offline charmingphlsphr Post #5  July 21,2011, 1:20pm
charmingphlsp…'s Avatar

Just got accepted as a writer on Christian apologetics!

Board Leader - Religion & Spirituality

Joined: May 2011

St. Louis

Posts: 168

See profile

AudioDad wrote :
This despite the fact that the Constitution clearly states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States" (Article 6, paragraph 3), and that the oath of the Office of President - the only actual oath spelled out in the constitution - does not contain the phrase "so help me God" nor any requirement to swear on a bible.

Putting all that aside for the moment, would you vote for an otherwise qualified candidate if he or she were an atheist? Why or why not?
You are right. It is certainly not a requirement in the formal sense, as in a prerequisite for the office itself, but if the populace demands it, then it is a requirement that would need to be met to stand a chance. I, personally, would not vote for an atheist. My contention is that the typical atheist promotes a morality that is contrary to their intellectual position and, at some point, any atheist is capable of taking morality to its logical end as we see Nietzsche do. That type of leader is a scary possibility (in a way, it did happen, already).

To be fair, I wouldn't vote for most anyone. I believe politics is part of what has ruined the process. Also, the democratic process we have does not help because our entire leadership is decided by a people who, collectively, read and comprehend on the critical level at a 6th-8th level and base their votes on superficial and visual influences (think the atrocious chameleon tactics of Hilary Clinton or the debate between Nixon and Kennedy). Though, I suppose it is the best option available.
 
  Reply With Quote
AudioDad is offline AudioDad Post #6  July 22,2011, 10:03am
AudioDad's Avatar

...has left the building

Enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2008

Posts: 800

See profile

charmingphlsphr wrote :
I, personally, would not vote for an atheist. My contention is that the typical atheist promotes a morality that is contrary to their intellectual position
No clue what this means. First off, what is the "typical" atheist? Secondly, the statement "promotes a morality that is contrary to their intellectual position" makes no sense. Can you clarify that?

charmingphlsphr wrote :
at some point, any atheist is capable of taking morality to its logical end as we see Nietzsche do. That type of leader is a scary possibility (in a way, it did happen, already).
Morality, being an entirely human construct, has no logical end. This is true regardless of one's world view. Atheists have no greater capacity for "scary behavior" than any other cultural cohort. Believers have certainly shown a capacity for atrocious behavior in the name of their various faiths throughout human history. Look at just the last 150 years of our own political system and the various scandals that have occurred. Since our government leaders have been almost exclusively Christian in some capacity (or at least professed to be), what does that say about the morality they have promoted over the years?

charmingphlsphr wrote :
To be fair, I wouldn't vote for most anyone. I believe politics is part of what has ruined the process.
On that point at least, we are definitely in agreement.

charmingphlsphr wrote :
Also, the democratic process we have does not help because our entire leadership is decided by a people who, collectively, read and comprehend on the critical level at a 6th-8th level and base their votes on superficial and visual influences
Agreed again. There are a couple of currently popular candidates right now who also fit that description.
 
  Reply With Quote
charmingphlsphr is offline charmingphlsphr Post #7  July 22,2011, 3:47pm
charmingphlsp…'s Avatar

Just got accepted as a writer on Christian apologetics!

Board Leader - Religion & Spirituality

Joined: May 2011

St. Louis

Posts: 168

See profile

AudioDad wrote :
No clue what this means. First off, what is the "typical" atheist? Secondly, the statement "promotes a morality that is contrary to their intellectual position" makes no sense. Can you clarify that?

I am going to respond here because I have had too long of a day to deal with snipping out little parts and responding accordingly. Atheism is an intellectual position and the morality of the typical atheist is one that implies a standard from which one may derive what is good and bad while denying said standard. They commonly contradict their intellectual position by their moral position.

People are united by their ideologies. There are variations in secondary differences, certainly, but the unity is from what they share. By saying "typical" atheist, I am referring to the atheist that holds to, first, the ideology and, second, the common, secondary positions on morality itself. The countless atheists I have communicated with over the last six years have shared common moral positions that imply a standard while their ideology rejects it; this, though, is not limited to a certain type of person and ranges from mathematicians, philosophers, and scientists to laymen.
Morality, being an entirely human construct, has no logical end. This is true regardless of one's world view. Atheists have no greater capacity for "scary behavior" than any other cultural cohort. Believers have certainly shown a capacity for atrocious behavior in the name of their various faiths throughout human history. Look at just the last 150 years of our own political system and the various scandals that have occurred. Since our government leaders have been almost exclusively Christian in some capacity (or at least professed to be), what does that say about the morality they have promoted over the years?

Justify your first sentence here. You conclude a lot with "being an entirely human construct," yet this is not substantiated. I am sure we both have held discussions like these before.

It is not that a person who is an atheist has a greater capacity to commit atrocities, but that natural morality is self-serving while behind the guise of selflessness. Nietzsche wrote that man was ultimately fueled by an avaricious lust for power and possession; this is natural morality - self-centered. Consider the Christian: they seek to do good in the hopes that it will bring honor and praise to Christ. Part of Christian theology, however, is based around the premise that we all fall short and that, even in our "good" moments, we are self-serving. This concept, though, does not justify misdeeds. Theistic morality is a morality that derives the "ought to do" from the standard, whereas natural morality derives the "ought to do" from self-interest, which is no morality at all.

On that point at least, we are definitely in agreement.

Agreed again. There are a couple of currently popular candidates right now who also fit that description.
SDG
 
  Reply With Quote
Ephemera is offline Ephemera Post #8  July 22,2011, 4:07pm
Ephemera's Avatar

is watching the little sleeping mousies.

Veteran

Joined: Aug 2009

East Coast

Posts: 1,158

See profile

I would be joyously dancing in the streets if there was to be an atheist candidate with a serious chance of winning the presidency. It would bring me into the political process again. I'd vote and I'd campaign for him/her and I'd have a new pride in my country. I actually think that it may be the next step and I am excited for the day. It would be even more wonderful if this country could rid itself of all of the religious interference in it's politics at every level. I've said it many times: Religion, like masturbation, is best done in private unless you are absolutely certain that the people you are exposing to it truely wish to share it with you.
 
  Reply With Quote
shapeShifter79 is offline shapeShifter79 Post #9  July 22,2011, 7:44pm
shapeShifter7…'s Avatar

likes dancing!

Board Leader: Health & Wellness

Joined: Apr 2011

CA

Posts: 2,499

See profile

wrote :
By saying "typical" atheist, I am referring to the atheist that holds to, first, the ideology and, second, the common, secondary positions on morality itself.
wrote :
They commonly contradict their intellectual position by their moral position.
Therein lies a fundamental misunderstanding.

Have you considered that their ethical positions are both in-line with and indeed a logical extension of their intellectual positions?

Many societies that don't share your religious beliefs still share many common virtues. Tara Smith's "Normative Ethics: The Virtuous Egoist" explains in great detail why it's in a selfish atheist's best interest to be virtuous. Texts aimed at a younger audience with no appeal to religion include "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" and many of Aesop's Fables.

You don't have to be an atheist to realize that following many virtues is in one's own self interest even with heaven and hell absent.
 
  Reply With Quote
shapeShifter79 is offline shapeShifter79 Post #10  July 22,2011, 8:01pm
shapeShifter7…'s Avatar

likes dancing!

Board Leader: Health & Wellness

Joined: Apr 2011

CA

Posts: 2,499

See profile

wrote :
Theistic morality.. derives the "ought to do" from the standard, whereas natural morality derives the "ought to do" from self-interest
I agree with that assessment.

When I hired a real estate agent last week I looked for someone experienced and trustworthy who would fetch a good price for a reasonable fee and make the process simple.

I never asked whether he was trustworthy due to self-interest or a particular code of religious beliefs.
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply


« What is the difference between Atheists and Non-believers? | Religion & Spirituality | A question about Sex and Spirituality »
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Topics
Topic Topic Starter Board Replies Last Post
Getting everyone to vote? jayjay Politics 16 November 1,2010 12:33am
VOTE DennisWisconsin A Man's Point of view 5 September 2,2009 7:48am
Vote On Healthcare DennisWisconsin Intelligent Conversation 2 August 24,2009 5:18am
40 Something's Care: So Vote DennisWisconsin 40 Something 0 August 19,2009 10:00pm
Vote For Your Choice On Healthcare DennisWisconsin Chit Chat 0 August 19,2009 9:47pm

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“ Excellent, thank you. I think I will leave out the first part, I think it is unnecessary information to give him. I'm not interested in putting myself out there like that and it might be a little ... ” –  generallyyou

Join the “Ending a friendship” discussion

“Alfred Hitchcock - 18 Steven Spielberg - 62 *notice what?” –  dmi

Join the “War of the Directors” discussion

“ I would be "certain people" :P The issue isn't a deal-breaker, but a very strong factor preference-wise, for me.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “How much does race play in your dating someone?” discussion

“Love Texas Hold'em!.. I'm thinking of trying another tournament this summer...not sure yet though.. Never entered a tournament before, outside of online ones. Personally I prefer to play with ... ” –  Freezepop

Join the “Favorite Card Game” discussion

“Make that 3! I also had a crush on Donny Osmond. I think I still have a record or two of his. Suzie ” –  legend29

Join the “Robin Gibbs Dead at 62...How Deep is Your Love?” discussion

“Oh, my revised profile can be seen in the forum in the section where you can ask for a profile review. Suzanne” –  SuzanneScorpio

Join the “Photo Review” discussion

“Just remember, everything that you are feeling and/or are capable of he is as well. If he wanted to reach you, he could. Right now he knows that you are hurting, and that this is not what you ... ” –  lynntlb78

Join the “Can I wait and move on at the same time?” discussion

“ Yohio. And the shortened form (Anya) is nice too.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “Where is Becky?!?” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:36am.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0