Do you believe in Ghosts and Evil Spirits?


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Reverse_Dragon is offline Reverse_Dragon Post #71  September 10,2011, 12:56am
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harnomygirl wrote :
I am actually not kidding. Suppose the Catholic church was the self-aware entity and all the humans were simply neurons that fired at will. There's some control, because of the Pope, but everything that happens in the body of the church is just due to humans obeying something they don't fully understand. Instead of hormones you can think of charisma and conditioning controlling us.

Someone alien or new to the scene might want to deal with the church, not the people. The people wouldn't really matter. They just think they do, but who really cares?

Perhaps things smaller than people are at work in a human organism and they would like to matter too. They are affected by outside influences and they react to them. They are actually what makes us the selves we can see. Why are they less important just because we are so large?

Think of an individual as the church, and each little brain cell as the members.

You can go smaller than that too. Or larger. I think everyone does one or the other when they assume anything about consciousness.
This is an awesome idea. You should really read 'The Selfish Gene' by Richard Dawkins. It's about the motivations of human behavior (specifically altruism and selfishness) from the point of view of individual genes. It's absolutely enthralling.
 
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Reverse_Dragon is offline Reverse_Dragon Post #72  September 10,2011, 1:27am
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Diana_P wrote :
Our nerve endings report sensations of pain (damage to cells), pressure, heat, etc, to our brain. Where exactly does our brain report this information? The scientific community has postulated that the complex interconnectivity of our brain cells has created the illusion of a “self” or an “I” which suggests to me that the mere act of bringing together all of this information is what creates our sense of self awareness. In other words, the “information” in our brains becomes “aware of itself.” That may “sound” logical, but I’m not sure I can swallow that pill.



Ha ha!

I really do enjoy our conversations.

Actually I have entertained the idea that consciousness is just an illusion or an effect, if you will. I’ve seriously considered the possibility that all of the decisions we make are based on previous patterns or random selection when there is insufficient data.

Here is one of the problems I have with the “no soul” supposition. Biological organisms can function without self awareness or consciousness, correct? It is obvious that a single cell organism or a tree doesn’t possess self awareness. In the video produced by the mathematician who was searching for the “I” it was proclaimed that only children between 18 and 24 months are able to pass the “mirror” test. It was also stated that only human beings, orangutans, and chimpanzees, possess self awareness.

So my question is: “If biological organisms can function without consciousness why did evolution imbue some of them with it?” Everything seems to serve a purpose in nature so why give apes and humans this “illusion” of existence? See what I’m saying? Does a tree “know” that it exists? No! Would it make more oxygen or better fruit if it knew that it exists? I don’t see how! So why would nature or evolution give a creature the illusion of existence if it servers no real purpose?

Believe it or not I could accept that the soul or spirit is an illusion if that is indeed fact. However, I maintain that one day science will have empirical evidence that the soul does exist. I just don’t believe we are ready and I also don’t believe we are looking in the right place.

Would you be able to swallow the “soul” pill should it be fact or would I need to get you a bigger glass of water?
I'm blushing. =] I absolutely delight in our discussions. My mother is a brilliant theologian and biblical scholar, but I can't have a passionate discussion with her because feelings always get hurt. Your firm and respectful opinions are highly valued, I assure you.

It's true that humans appear to have a unique ability that sets them apart from other animals. Some have proposed it's the thumb, or the imagination, tool using, or abstract thought... but all of these attributes can be found in other animals. The truth is that what separates us from other animals is symbolism.

Humans possess the ability to make one thing (an image, a sound, etc.) represent something else entirely. A siren means danger, a flag means patriotism and country and nationalism, and the collection of sounds 'day-vid' means me. This is the basis of language, religion, culture, inherited knowledge... all the structures that make up the human world.

This ability was developed through the use of 'mirror' neurons, which allow us the ability to imagine us as others see us, and to imagine (successfully) what others are thinking and feeling. This is how we learn, how we empathize, and how we cooperate. It is also why there is apparent seperation between our experiences and our 'inner selves'. In order to be aware of our own motivations and desires, we view ourselves as we imagine others see us, creating a disconnect between experience and the one experiencing that isn't truly necessary.

To answer your final question. If evidence for the soul were discovered, (say... a quantum process within the brain that continues through entanglement or as-yet undiscovered means... or a form of energy that can manifest without a fermionic or baryonic substrate) I would be flabbergasted, fascinated, and utterly thrilled.

I'd dry swallow those pills like tic-tacs. Believe me, no one would love to believe there is more to the world then decaying matter and the 'blind watchmaker' of natural selection... but wishing doesn't make it so.
 
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harnomygirl is offline harnomygirl Post #73  September 10,2011, 8:49am
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Reverse_Dragon wrote :
This is an awesome idea. You should really read 'The Selfish Gene' by Richard Dawkins. It's about the motivations of human behavior (specifically altruism and selfishness) from the point of view of individual genes. It's absolutely enthralling.
I now have a copy. Thanks for the recommendation and I'll check it out. I hope it's not something I have to wade through.
 
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Reverse_Dragon is offline Reverse_Dragon Post #74  September 10,2011, 6:42pm
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harnomygirl wrote :
I now have a copy. Thanks for the recommendation and I'll check it out. I hope it's not something I have to wade through.
He's a brilliant communicator and has a gift for explaining complex quasi-mathematical concepts without resorting to jargon or technical writing. It's all prose, most of it quite elegant. Enjoy!
 
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Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #75  September 10,2011, 8:47pm
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harnomygirl wrote :
I am actually not kidding. Suppose the Catholic church was the self-aware entity and all the humans were simply neurons that fired at will. There's some control, because of the Pope, but everything that happens in the body of the church is just due to humans obeying something they don't fully understand. Instead of hormones you can think of charisma and conditioning controlling us.

Someone alien or new to the scene might want to deal with the church, not the people. The people wouldn't really matter. They just think they do, but who really cares?

Perhaps things smaller than people are at work in a human organism and they would like to matter too. They are affected by outside influences and they react to them. They are actually what makes us the selves we can see. Why are they less important just because we are so large?

Think of an individual as the church, and each little brain cell as the members.

You can go smaller than that too. Or larger. I think everyone does one or the other when they assume anything about consciousness.
This is a interesting idea. Have you ever considered writing a book about some of your theories?
 
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harnomygirl is offline harnomygirl Post #76  September 13,2011, 6:24am
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Diana_P wrote :
This is a interesting idea. Have you ever considered writing a book about some of your theories?
No. I don't think about most things long enough to flesh out an idea. Other people are better at it. I do tell little children stories though. It's easier and takes less time.
 
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dbz77 is offline dbz77 Post #77  September 19,2011, 6:27am
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ANDR3W wrote :


What exactly is a "non-corporal entity" or a "disembodied intellect"? And how exactly does this ghost interact with hard matter?
What is the entity that uses your brain to think?
 
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Reverse_Dragon is offline Reverse_Dragon Post #78  September 23,2011, 11:48am
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dbz77 wrote :
What is the entity that uses your brain to think?
There isn't one. You ARE your brain.
 
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ANDR3W is offline ANDR3W Post #79  September 23,2011, 8:18pm
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dbz77 wrote :
What is the entity that uses your brain to think?


Karl Pilkington, the Onion, and the Problem of Free Will

Reverse Dragon is right, we are our brains. There is no entity pulling levers in your brain causing you to think. The mind is what the brain does. For instance, right now as you read this sentence my brain is talking to your brain. By using written symbols and spoken words we can transmit ideas back and forth between our brains. Mirror neurons give us the ability to interpret each others behavior, read emotions, interpret facial expressions, body language as well as understanding the goals and intentions of others.
 
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Spiritual Warfare is offline Spiritual Warfare Post #80  March 21,2012, 4:25pm
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ones who fear ghost death and all sorts of other things watch too much drama on tv which you probably didnt know but if you did your full research on it you being a christian and taking up the cross with Jesus Christ put you in contact with Spiritual Warfare not just you but anyone who takes up the cross and follows Christ he died on the cross so that we may be saved this means he died for your sins. When we did we are blossomed into heaven there fore our bodies are blossomed like Jesus who was blossomed when he came to his disciples after he resurrected. I well have to break the news for you but anyone knows the first time you actually died from sin was when you got baptized and if you haven't been baptized then you might want to think about that because being baptized cleanses you from all unrighteousness.
 
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