What is the genesis of original evil?


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Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #1  June 5,2011, 6:34am
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God is perfect by His own definition which is the only one that matters if you are the Creator. God created the universe and everything in it. God is perfect. His creation is perfect. So where did evil come from?

We are taught that Satan is the Father of Lies and the Genesis of evil. Evil, of course, is anything that displeases God and as far as we know God WAS pleased with everything he had created until Satan turned against Him.

In the beginning Perfection abounds and the Spirit of God is everywhere and in everything including Lucifer. How then did Lucifer “turn” evil? Where did the impulse to rebel against God come from? Who tempted the Father of Temptation?

Think about it? If God is good and no evil can come from God then that means that ONLY good existed; so where did evil come from?

Now you could argue that evil came into existence as a result of free will. The problem with that argument is that God supposedly is omniscient (all knowing). Thus, God had to know that Satan would turn against God even before He created Satan. Is it not possible for God to create a reality in which ALL the Angels choose to follow God for eternity? Would that not satisfy God’s need to prove the existence of free will? If you are God certainly this must be possible. Why is it necessary to allow your creation to rebel against you in order to validate the existence of free will?

Free will or no we are still left with the question of what prompted Satan to turn against God. There were no evil beings around to tempt Satan, whisper in his ear, or persuade him to eat forbidden fruit. There was only God and God’s goodness. The Angels were not concerned with the pleasures of the flesh and were created solely for the purpose of glorifying God. They didn’t care about food or sex and the only sustenance they needed was to be in God’s presence. Why then would Lucifer or any Angel deliberately starve themselves by disassociating with God? It doesn’t make any sense?

The only explanation I can come up with is that Lucifer got tired of telling God how great God is. However, that doesn’t add up either because that is what Lucifer was MADE to do! Things that stop doing what they are made to do are broken. And if Lucifer “broke” was that Lucifer’s fault or the Creators? Was it a bug in the design perhaps? Unless free will in and of itself is a “defect” I don’t see how Lucifer could have ever become discontent enough to challenge God. Is Heaven not the paradise we think it is? Is eternally being in God’s presence not the reward we’ve been taught? What would make an Angel decide serving God and being in Heaven is not good enough? Think about it! There is something horribly wrong there!

If God and His creation were perfect how could the introduction of free will transform that creation into something that isn’t perfect? It doesn’t make any sense. Also, if Lucifer turned against God because He didn’t want to “bow” to another Being, it doesn’t make any sense that other Angels would follow Lucifer and “bow” to a “lesser” god. What is there to gain in the exchange of one Master for another? These things don’t add up.

I don’t have any answers or explanations for these questions and I welcome the wisdom of anyone who would like to share.
 
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AudioDad is offline AudioDad Post #2  June 5,2011, 7:23am
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Diana_P wrote :
So where did evil come from?
Like the concepts of good and gods, from the human mind. Or, if one is biblically inclined, from God (Is. 45:7) - though the translation of the Hebrew word 'ra-ah' is often debated among apologists. It's been alternately translated as evil, calamity, unpleasant experience, etc.
 
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ChristianBrother is offline ChristianBrother Post #3  June 5,2011, 9:41am
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Diana_P wrote :
...Now you could argue that evil came into existence as a result of free will... Would that not satisfy God’s need to prove the existence of free will?... Why is it necessary to allow your creation to rebel against you in order to validate the existence of free will?

Free will or no...

...Unless free will in and of itself is a “defect”...

If God and His creation were perfect how could the introduction of free will transform that creation into something that isn’t perfect?...
Why does humanity keep insisting that they have "Free Will"?

And I do believe that the Book of Romans in the Bible Chapter 9 effectively deals with this entire issue. Especially verses 14 thru verse 23.
 
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ChristianBrother is offline ChristianBrother Post #4  June 5,2011, 9:43am
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I don't want to quote the verses here since I am afraid that they would not be welcomed. But they basically say- God is soveriegn and we are not.

He gets to do what he'd like. And we really have little if any say in the matter.
 
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charmingphlsphr is offline charmingphlsphr Post #5  June 5,2011, 11:31am
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ChristianBrother wrote :
Why does humanity keep insisting that they have "Free Will"?

And I do believe that the Book of Romans in the Bible Chapter 9 effectively deals with this entire issue. Especially verses 14 thru verse 23.
Anselm argued that true free will is only possible when not tainted by sin or, rather, in an intimate relationship with God.
 
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myusernamehere is online now myusernamehere Post #6  June 5,2011, 11:53am
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Pride. And alcohol.
 
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Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #7  June 5,2011, 5:53pm
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myusernamehere wrote :
Pride. And alcohol.

The Bible says that the Angel Lucifer wanted to be like God or better than God. But, Lucifer was an intelligent being so he had to know that wasn't possible. Lucifer knew he was a created being and therefore could never be the Creator. So how did the sin of pride arise in one of God's perfect servants? If this thing called pride is evil and not a creation of God where did it come from? How did evil manifest when there was nothing but God and His goodness?
 
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llw11 is offline llw11 Post #8  June 6,2011, 12:06pm
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i think God "created" both good and evil. i think God has to be responsible for all of his creation. nothing can happen that is not God's will or else he will not be god. how can God create us imperfect, knowing full well with 100% certainty that we will "sin", still create us anyway but not taking responsibility for it? this is one of christianity's many contradictions.
 
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hermes01 is offline hermes01 Post #9  June 6,2011, 10:32pm
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To 'God'.............is there good and evil?
 
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Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #10  June 7,2011, 4:08pm
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llw11 wrote :
this is one of christianity's many contradictions.
I agree that it is a contradiction. But I also think there is an answer even humans can comprehend. Do questions like these matter if you are already saved? I think they do. If you can take your beliefs apart and still have faith that says something.
 
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