AZJoe is offline AZJoe Post #11  July 4,2011, 10:55am
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Diana_P wrote :
If these people are frauds does God have mercy on their followers?
It depends on their state of mind or their final disposition with respect to repenting for the their errors.

God will judge them based on their state of mind, what their conscience told them and what they should have known morally but rejected out of pride. Only God can judge a soul and know precisely what factors are at work in a person's soul. We do know with absolute certainty though that "God is not mocked" by sane or insane individuals.
 
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Wonderwoman402 is offline Wonderwoman402 Post #12  July 4,2011, 11:16am
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Diana_P wrote :
That's an interesting point. Anyone who says they are a prophet or Messiah is immediately disqualified just by claiming to be so and setting themselves up as an idol. Good one, Wonderwoman!
I was actually referring to their followers, for following a "false idol."

But as I said in my edit comment, perhaps God gives special dispensation to stupid people (though I don't recall seeing any special exception for that in the good book....)
 
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AZJoe is offline AZJoe Post #13  July 5,2011, 10:05am
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Wonderwoman402 wrote :
I was actually referring to their followers, for following a "false idol."

But as I said in my edit comment, perhaps God gives special dispensation to stupid people (though I don't recall seeing any special exception for that in the good book....)
This is consistent with the Catholic teaching of Invincible Ignorance. Clearly, a child not of age can not commit a grave sin since grave sin (the sort that disgraces the soul and deprives it of saving grace) requires 3 conditions:

  • Its subject must be a grave (or serious) matter. [e.g. murder, infidelity - sins derived as violations of the 10 commandments ]
  • It must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense (no one is considered ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are inborn as part of human knowledge, but these principles can be misunderstood in a particular context).
  • It must be committed with deliberate and complete consent, enough for it to have been a personal decision to commit the sin.

Likewise a person who has suffered mental depravity due to sickness or illness (dementia, mental handicap etc.) can not be held fully accountable for his actions if not done consciously for the explicit purpose to mock or attempt to hurt God.

Here is a scripture verses which demonstrates how offense can be mitigated (but not completely expunged) by lack of knowledge. But going the other way - those of us who know more are held to a higher standard as well. Those who teach are held to the highest standard and if they teach error - its very harsh for them.


Luke Chapter 12
The servant who knew his master's will, but did not maker preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely; and the servant who was ignorant of his master's will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly.

Luke 12:48 "Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more"
All this said "ignorance" does not save - only grace saves. One can not attain salvation through naked ignorance alone - ignorance only mitigates degree of punishment (hell is very severe for all but is even more severe in proportion to the degree and frequency of unrepented and unforgiven sin).
Last edited by AZJoe; July 5,2011 at 10:08am.
 
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hermes01 is offline hermes01 Post #14  July 5,2011, 12:40pm
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I thought you cannot 'SIN'..........unless you take aim?
 
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