If Heaven is So Great, Why Do People Fioght to Stay Alive?


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dbz77 is offline dbz77 Post #1  May 28,2011, 11:03am
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If Heaven is so great, why would people of any religion (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc.) fight to stay alive? Would not the appropriate reaction to a heart attack be to crawl into a corner to die quietly, instead of dialing 9-1-1? Or if one is diagnosed with cancer, why spend tens of thousands of dollars on medical treatment, instead of spending it on entertainment until it is time to meet God and go to Heaven? After all, did not Jesus say whoever loses his life for His sake will find it? Did not the Quran teach that martyrs go to Heaven?
 
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charmingphlsphr is offline charmingphlsphr Post #2  May 28,2011, 2:07pm
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dbz77 wrote :
If Heaven is so great, why would people of any religion (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc.) fight to stay alive? Would not the appropriate reaction to a heart attack be to crawl into a corner to die quietly, instead of dialing 9-1-1? Or if one is diagnosed with cancer, why spend tens of thousands of dollars on medical treatment, instead of spending it on entertainment until it is time to meet God and go to Heaven? After all, did not Jesus say whoever loses his life for His sake will find it? Did not the Quran teach that martyrs go to Heaven?
Jesus' teaching was to reinforce the point that we are to deny ourselves for Christ. The immediacy of the health concern prompts the attempt preserve one's health and entertainment is of little concern. Realistically, despite attempts to preserve health, if it is going to happen, one will find nary a way to prevent it.
 
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myusernamehere is online now myusernamehere Post #3  May 28,2011, 2:37pm
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True that. Personally I'd be happy to die tomorrow. No cancer in Heaven. No suffering. No natural disasters. Nobody to cut you off in traffic. Sounds good to me.
 
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Wonderwoman402 is offline Wonderwoman402 Post #4  May 28,2011, 3:32pm
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dbz77 wrote :
If Heaven is so great, why would people of any religion (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc.) fight to stay alive?
Because it's pretty darn good here on earth, too! We get pretty attached to the people in our lives and don't want to leave them. Besides, no matter what your beliefs about the afterlife, no one knows for certain what happens after death and that is a bit scary.

dbz77 wrote :
Would not the appropriate reaction to a heart attack be to crawl into a corner to die quietly, instead of dialing 9-1-1?
Depending on the state of one's overall health, many people do exactly that. The symptoms of a heart attack can be confused with many other things, many of them quite treatable, and not all heart attacks are fatal, so it does not make logical sense to not call for help. You could just end up living a life of lesser quality than dying.

dbz77 wrote :
Or if one is diagnosed with cancer, why spend tens of thousands of dollars on medical treatment, instead of spending it on entertainment until it is time to meet God and go to Heaven?
You've never had cancer or had a very close relative with it, have you? The choice of spending the medical dollars on "entertainment" instead is not likely to happen when one is bedridden with disease. Some cancers are fairly easily and successfully treated/cured these days. That said, chemo can be horrible with horrible side effects. Depending on the person's age and what else is going on in their life, I could not fault someone who decided to forgo treatment and instead just live as comfortably as possible to the end.

dbz77 wrote :
After all, did not Jesus say whoever loses his life for His sake will find it? Did not the Quran teach that martyrs go to Heaven?
I don't follow the Bible nor the Qur'an, so won't answer about those from my beliefs. There are, however, suicide bombers, etc., who believe they are doing God's glory by dying that way. I find that reprehensible and if there is a God I cannot imagine him/her finding that acceptable. In my opinion, fundamentalist extremists of any religion are terribly misguided, to put it mildly.
 
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ANDR3W is offline ANDR3W Post #5  May 29,2011, 6:32pm
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dbz77 is right. If heaven is so awesome, and only Christians get in, then why aren't believers overjoyed when they go to a Christian funeral? Why even bother with doctor visits, or buckling your seat-belts if dieing is the only way to enter everlasting paradise? Something doesn't add up here, it seems like believers lack the courage of their convictions.
 
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AZJoe is offline AZJoe Post #6  May 30,2011, 6:24am
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dbz77 wrote :
If Heaven is so great, why would people of any religion (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc.) fight to stay alive? Would not the appropriate reaction to a heart attack be to crawl into a corner to die quietly, instead of dialing 9-1-1? Or if one is diagnosed with cancer, why spend tens of thousands of dollars on medical treatment, instead of spending it on entertainment until it is time to meet God and go to Heaven? After all, did not Jesus say whoever loses his life for His sake will find it? Did not the Quran teach that martyrs go to Heaven?
I'd like to turn this around and ask Atheists the same thing. Why cling to life at all when its so apparently irrelevant, without purpose and has no eternal rewards or consequences?

But to answer the OP:
Because life is good and because we each are created for a purpose. Many have obligations to loved ones and family that depend on us (food, shelter, clothing etc.). A mother who has an infant will heroically struggle to stay alive in an accident for the sake of that child - this is part of being human and exactly the nature that God gave us.

Also, because being human we are inevitably attached in varying degrees to "this world" by our relations here - albeit most-often too greatly. We must not ever love the creature (or the material) over the Creator but it is our nature to desire to find and continue our vocations here on earth and add our intended contributions that we were all made for.

It is hard for many to transition when the time comes. But we are also here in a kind of "gestation" - growing and maturing to be all we can be for the afterlife. We have many things to learn and do before we are fully tested and convicted in our beliefs and before we anneal who we are at our core being. We really hardly know when "that time" has come to be called out of this life and so the gravity is to cling to life until we know for certain.

It is our innate nature to desire to cling to the one life God gives us because it is a gift from God. There is nothing wrong with that - but the Christian should of course not obsess over life and must be prepared at all times to commend his life back to The Father when called. It is because of sin that any of us has to die in the first place.
 
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AZJoe is offline AZJoe Post #7  May 30,2011, 6:41am
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ANDR3W wrote :
dbz77 is right. If heaven is so awesome, and only Christians get in, then why aren't believers overjoyed when they go to a Christian funeral?
Proper Christian funerals are occasions for both sadness and joy. We are all humans and miss our loved ones and friends when they die. That is a natural human emotion that can not be denied. Even Jesus wept at the death of His friend Lazarus before He resurrected Him. We can't and should not deny our own good human nature in this area. But we also celebrate the passing of a Christian friend who we believe was living a good Christian life with joy and happiness knowing with high confidence that they are in a wonderful place with God. In fact we pray that we may be reunited with them again after our own lives are over.

ANDR3W wrote :
Why even bother with doctor visits, or buckling your seat-belts if dieing is the only way to enter everlasting paradise? Something doesn't add up here, it seems like believers lack the courage of their convictions.
Being irresponsible with the gift of life God gave is sinful and also exposes others to danger. We each are here for a God given purpose (though some being too occupied with selfish pursuits never find it and fail their calling - a truly fearful place to be on one's death bed before they meet their Creator). Are you really that relationally close with true believers to be able to judge the whole lot? Or are you projecting your own suppositions from a few poor examples onto the whole?

Not all who call themselves Christian are anything of the sort in practice. And others who are for the greater part good Christians have better days than others. I'd be careful though to not mistakenly project individual observations on the whole nor think to judge an individual soul based on external appearances. That usually opens the door to being judged by the same standard...
 
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charmingphlsphr is offline charmingphlsphr Post #8  May 30,2011, 7:27am
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ANDR3W wrote :

dbz77 is right. If heaven is so awesome, and only Christians get in, then why aren't believers overjoyed when they go to a Christian funeral? Why even bother with doctor visits, or buckling your seat-belts if dieing is the only way to enter everlasting paradise? Something doesn't add up here, it seems like believers lack the courage of their convictions.
Respectfully, this is nonsense. Buckling one's seat belt is according to the law of the land and doctor's visits do not indicate a lack of conviction (we are told to honor God with our bodies). Christian funerals, if you have ever seen one, is filled with both believers and unbelievers, the believers being both happy that they are with the Lord now and sad that they will not see them as long as they live.
 
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Wonderwoman402 is offline Wonderwoman402 Post #9  May 30,2011, 9:16am
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AZJoe wrote :
I'd like to turn this around and ask Atheists the same thing. Why cling to life at all when its so apparently irrelevant, without purpose and has no eternal rewards or consequences?
I know a lot of atheists, including my son. Not a single one of them thinks life is irrelevant or without purpose. Quite the contrary, they view life here on earth as extremely relevant and with great purpose, and don't give a thought about reaping "future rewards" for being good here on earth. They're good because they are good people, in the here and now.

You don't need a threat of damnation nor a promise of "eternal rewards" to be a good person. I have a lot more respect for people who are good for the sake of being good, than who are good out of fear of some punishment from beyond.
 
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AZJoe is offline AZJoe Post #10  May 30,2011, 10:34am
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Wonderwoman402 wrote :
I know a lot of atheists, including my son. Not a single one of them thinks life is irrelevant or without purpose. Quite the contrary, they view life here on earth as extremely relevant and with great purpose, and don't give a thought about reaping "future rewards" for being good here on earth. They're good because they are good people, in the here and now.

You don't need a threat of damnation nor a promise of "eternal rewards" to be a good person. I have a lot more respect for people who are good for the sake of being good, than who are good out of fear of some punishment from beyond.
I do too and I enjoy dialog with some.
And for those who do feel "relevant" (not all do) so far none can express where their feelings of "purpose" come from. I use that as a springboard to discuss the real nature of human beings (spiritual & physical) and about "where" their values and notions of "good" and "right and wrong" arise from. In your judgment of them being "good" you obviously have your own moral standard for judging that which may be accurate or not objectively speaking. And this is usually where the interesting dialog ensues about who or what establishes the norms and leads to interesting dialog and more than a few conversions to at least a level of Deistic belief.

When you say: "You don't need a threat of damnation nor a promise of "eternal rewards" to be a good person." are you speaking to me personally or attempting to assert a conjecture in the general case? I certainly don't see the world in such a negative light. Christians are to love God for His own goodness sake. So It's sad to me if this is how you judge "believers" to be (I assume you are a believer?). In fact I don't think even those who might best be described as "fundamentalists" would embrace that old anti-religious polemic line of thinking so why do you even bother to toss it out here? Sounds like you might have some of your own preconceived notions about others here...

Personally, I have a lot more respect for those who are not afraid to speak their truth and who refuse to capitulate to the politically correct views (and latch on to old passe' stereotypes) of a majority and not follow the band like lemmings over the cliff just to fit in.

If you want to start a new discussion topic on any of that I might join you...
Last edited by AZJoe; May 30,2011 at 10:41am.
 
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