Can two human beings share each other’s souls?


Reply
 
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #1  May 22,2011, 4:10pm
Diana_P's Avatar

Board Leader - Religion & Spirituality

Joined: Sep 2010

Posts: 1,118

See profile

This video from ABC News is a very touching and compassionate story of two beautiful baby girls who are joined at the head. What makes these conjoined twins so unique is that they share brain tissue and quite literally can “see” through each other’s eyes. Even more amazingly they can actually “hear” each other’s thoughts. This video might be a little disconcerting to some so I want to caution you before you check it out.

When I see two individuals who share each other’s souls it brings to mind all kinds of questions. If forces me to open up my heart and my mind to other explanations and possibilities about the nature of the soul.

The relationship between matter and consciousness is quite a curious one. Is it possible that inanimate matter evolved to produce consciousness or is consciousness the genesis of matter? Did God will all of physical creation into existence with thought or was matter already there and God merely organized it into life? Are there other explanations besides just The Big Bang, evolution, and Creationism/Intelligent Design?

What miraculous things might we learn and discover if we put forth a little more effort to hear someone else’s thoughts and see through someone else’s eyes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWDsXa5nNbI&feature=related
 
  Reply With Quote
AZJoe is offline AZJoe Post #2  May 23,2011, 6:11am
AZJoe's Avatar

In and Out

Quick Study

Joined: May 2011

Posts: 143

See profile

Diana_P wrote :
The relationship between matter and consciousness is quite a curious one. Is it possible that inanimate matter evolved to produce consciousness or is consciousness the genesis of matter? Did God will all of physical creation into existence with thought or was matter already there and God merely organized it into life? Are there other explanations besides just The Big Bang, evolution, and Creationism/Intelligent Design?
Ex nihilo nihil fit - Nothing comes from nothing
This philosophical expression is a thesis first argued by Parmenides.
Christians have renown scientific and intellectual accomplishments and have used the wisdom of the ancients to explain much of Christian principals. It is paramount to Christian thinking that nothing can come from nothing and that logic alone explains there had to be a Prime Mover or God Creator. Science, or I should say orthodox science is ONLY concerned with the material world consisting of time and space - hence it has no insight or domain in spiritual matters. Spiritual matters such as we discuss here are topics for the spiritual domain - the area we call theology. So its important to not mix the two domains inappropriately.. Science and Theology as long as both seek truth can never really be at odds with each other since truth is objective, unchanging, consistent and non-contradictory, Where most of the conflicts arise when science tries encroach into theology and speak on matters it subjectively can't see or measure (e.g God who chooses to reveal Himself to whom He chooses - not to probes and devices).

It might surprise you to know that the Big Bang theory was developed by a Catholic Priest who is also an scientific academic (Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître ). The theory is in perfect agreement with both observed and theoretical science and with Christian theology.

As to the OP question - no, each human soul is unique. The brain is not the soul. The intellect feeds information to the soul and the soul illumines the intellect but the soul is not dependent on a brain or a leg or an arm or a foot etc. Life is defined as soul and body co-joined. when the soul is separated from its body the body dies but the soul continues to exist eternally (either in heaven or hell) until reunited with the imperishable body at the 2nd coming.

So in the case of the twins with a single brain if it is indeed two separate human beings (I'm not sure) and not just a freak of nature where there is one body with multiple limbs and extremities there would be two separate souls. This is tough condition to for human's to ascertain which is the case here. If one of the apparent twins exhibits its own personality then it is clearly two souls and not just one with a freak physical condition. I could not bring myself to look at the video so I can't opine on which case I think it is.

Note that twins evolve from the same original fertilized egg that suddenly splits into two unique instances. No scientist really knows what makes the cell "suddenly" split off a new instance of itself. But it is explainable by theology. In Catholic theology the teaching on the nature of the soul is well developed. It is defined as that which God creates at the instant of conception and which animates the body and gives it its form. The natural soul contains all of God's laws and attributes that make it unique as well as a natural desire for truth and to seek out its Creator and enter into a relationship with..

In the case of twins there are 2 unique souls in existence BEFORE the souls each animate their two separate bodies as two separate instances of physical creatures. They in a sense share a single cell for a body for the instance in time before the souls split into two distinct corporeal instances and develop separate bodies. In the example you give here - assuming it is 2 separate humans and not one, there was a defect in the physical conditions that prevented the complete separation and full and normal physical development of each child.That is not a defect of the souls though. I am inclined from your descriptions to believe that it is two separate humans sharing the same brain organ.

Thanks for sharing.
 
  Reply With Quote
hermes01 is offline hermes01 Post #3  May 23,2011, 8:42am
hermes01's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Nov 2010

Posts: 134

See profile

People talk about the SOUL...(solo)..as if they know.
Well, I certainly do NOT know...but..we may suggest.

Soul is a 'zone of Energy' which is the 'womb' of the Divine Essence.

'My soul doth magnify the Lord'

The physical body is the 'womb' of the soul.

Are we the soul..or the physical body? That is up to us to decide.
Consciousnes does NOT come from the brain which is made up of particles non of which is aware of themselves as particles. Awareness comes from THE SOURCE of all things, Itself not a thing. G.O.D. is Infinite Sentient Power/Energy and its is this Power/Energy...that is Awareness Itself.
 
  Reply With Quote
Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #4  May 23,2011, 8:47am
Diana_P's Avatar

Board Leader - Religion & Spirituality

Joined: Sep 2010

Posts: 1,118

See profile

AZJoe wrote :
It might surprise you to know that the Big Bang theory was developed by a Catholic Priest who is also an scientific academic (Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître ). The theory is in perfect agreement with both observed and theoretical science and with Christian theology.

Thanks for sharing.
I did not know that! But, in a way I am not surprised. Are there other definitive points of alignment between science and theology? For example, advancements in genetics have proven conclusively that all men, White, Black, Red, and Yellow, are brothers and share a common lineage to a point in time when only one land mass was above the surface of the water. Does this time line agree with the poported time of the great flood? Do you think that would that be sufficient evidence for non-believers or simply just more coincidence?
 
  Reply With Quote
Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #5  May 23,2011, 9:03am
Diana_P's Avatar

Board Leader - Religion & Spirituality

Joined: Sep 2010

Posts: 1,118

See profile

hermes01 wrote :
People talk about the SOUL...(solo)..as if they know.
Well, I certainly do NOT know...but..we may suggest.

Soul is a 'zone of Energy' which is the 'womb' of the Divine Essence.

'My soul doth magnify the Lord'

The physical body is the 'womb' of the soul.

Are we the soul..or the physical body? That is up to us to decide.
Consciousnes does NOT come from the brain which is made up of particles non of which is aware of themselves as particles. Awareness comes from THE SOURCE of all things, Itself not a thing. G.O.D. is Infinite Sentient Power/Energy and its is this Power/Energy...that is Awareness Itself.
Good post.

There are two things I think no matter what you believe most everyone can agree on. One, you can be certain that you exist. Two, as you pointed out, we do appear to be greater than the sum of our parts. That is to say that we are inherently more than just the particles that make us up.

I think those two givens are a good place to start. Was it you that said in another post that our mind and intellect actually gets in the way of our understanding? If that is so it is most unfortunate since the mind and intellect are the only tools we have.

I do agree that fear can get in our way. Fear of losing control. Fear of change. Fear of what we don't know. Fear of that frieght train hitting a mountain and forcing you to let go of something that you so badly want to believe is true. I've personally experienced this and it is no fun. It almost makes you want to NEVER believe in anything again.
 
  Reply With Quote
AZJoe is offline AZJoe Post #6  May 23,2011, 10:12am
AZJoe's Avatar

In and Out

Quick Study

Joined: May 2011

Posts: 143

See profile

hermes01 wrote :
People talk about the SOUL...(solo)..as if they know.
Well, I certainly do NOT know...but..we may suggest.

Soul is a 'zone of Energy' which is the 'womb' of the Divine Essence.

'My soul doth magnify the Lord'

The physical body is the 'womb' of the soul.
You quote one of my favorite Marian verses from her Magnificat (aka Mary's Canticle - Luke 1:46-55) that profoundly mirrors the OT Song of Hannah (1 Samuel 2:1-10).

"Interesting suggestion". I appreciate your poetic interpretation of the essence of the soul although I don't feel as comfortable with some of the new-age imagery that is connoted by terms like "energy" nor the focus on the feminine to the exclusion of the masculine (He created them both male and female in His image). Sounds like you are coming up with your own metaphors to try to ponder God's works. Nothing wrong with that.

hermes01 wrote :
Are we the soul..or the physical body? That is up to us to decide.
Consciousnes does NOT come from the brain which is made up of particles non of which is aware of themselves as particles. Awareness comes from THE SOURCE of all things, Itself not a thing. G.O.D. is Infinite Sentient Power/Energy and its is this Power/Energy...that is Awareness Itself.
Why do you conjecture that it must it be an "either or" concept and not a "both and" concept? Christian Theologians of any pedigree from the earliest have always held that the soul is the animating principal of the body and that the body is made for the soul. It is the union of man and woman together than brings forth the fruit of the womb that God endows with a soul. In this view we see a cooperative and benevolent God intimately involved with His creatures - in essence giving us a certain facility for creating new life through Him.

What do you mean by the acronym "G. O. D." ? Do you consider yourself a Trinitarian Christian? Just curious.
 
  Reply With Quote
AZJoe is offline AZJoe Post #7  May 23,2011, 11:40am
AZJoe's Avatar

In and Out

Quick Study

Joined: May 2011

Posts: 143

See profile

Diana_P wrote :
I did not know that! But, in a way I am not surprised. Are there other definitive points of alignment between science and theology? For example, advancements in genetics have proven conclusively that all men, White, Black, Red, and Yellow, are brothers and share a common lineage to a point in time when only one land mass was above the surface of the water.
Oh yes indeed. The popular misconception/myth of the day is that The Church is anti-Science and unintellectual. Nothing could be further from the truth.

So I have to laugh hard here. So many forget that virtually all the highly educated from the beginnings of Western culture were more often than not Christian priests or religious etc. who were the most educated of the day. They forget too that a lot of the western and even eastern languages flowed out of The Church as the missionaries spread the good news and taught the converts how to read and write and adapted their crude pagan language expressions and customs so they could learn (where German came from) and advance themselves. For example, St. Cyril developed the Glagolitic alphabet - the first alphabet used to transcribe Slavonic texts.

If I may digress for a moment - the whole Galileo brouhaha is often thrown in the face of the Church to ridicule it by self-proscribed "educated" individuals who are in fact usually ignorant of history or by those who know better but for whatever reason go ahead and propagate hateful polemics. They use Galileo as an example of how the church is opposed to science when in fact the church welcomes truthful inquiry and is often at the vanguard of embracing discovery. In fact it was The Church and the very intellectual and scientific Jesuits who commissioned Galileo (who was a very religious Catholic BTW). They paid him and gave him access to their facilities to come up with a better calendar by studying planetary motion. Consequently, he refined the heliocentric (Copernicanism) theories and started tearing down the popular geocentric assumptions. The church was not opposed to Heliocentric views just his assertion of them as fact without first having irrefutable proof (which at the time he did not have). It also insisted that he not teach religion or new theological views to account for why God must have done it all the way Galileo conjectured and to first stick to pure science without conferring with the Church on the theological implications. The church rightfully frowned on science trying to teach religion since the two are separate domains and Galileo's new teachings were often crossing the line and inciting riots among the very devout Christian populace who he was upsetting and openly taunting and mocking. Truthfully, at one time the Church was the only real leadership and experts in science and so for a time had a leadership role. It is easy to see how some in contemporary times would convolve that the church was abusing its powers having both leadership chairs so to speak (spiritual and scientific).

What Galileo really flushed out was the fact that a lot of the religious community at the time had a literal fundamental-only view of the bible verses - a thing in fact never taught by The Church as de fide (not a required certain belief). The Church simply put him under comfortable house arrest for his own protection from the mobs who were upset for his unproven theories changing their entire world views and scaring people. He was actually a good friend of the pope and remained so all his days and was not ever found guilty of heresy. Rather he was found guilty of "suspicion of heresy". The difference is subtle and it was the only way the church could legally protect him without turning him over to the secular authorities (the King) for severe punishment for treason against the King's religion. It didn't help that Galileo was openly lampooning and mocking authorities. In those days a subject had to follow the religion of the King or it was considered a personal crime against the King himself - punishable by hideous and slow death.

Diana_P wrote :
Does this time line agree with the poported time of the great flood? Do you think that would that be sufficient evidence for non-believers or simply just more coincidence?
I am not a scripture literalist and hold to the full teaching that scripture has 2 general senses - literal and spiritual with spiritual senses having: allegorical, moral & anagogical & tropological insights.

Thus the time of the Great Flood is not important to me personally and The Church does not teach a specific date. It accepts what the bible states as factual within the 4 senses mentioned. The church focuses here on teaching the truth that Noah's ark prefigures salvation by Baptism and the divine economy of grace: "for by it a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water": The covenant with Noah after the flood gives expression to the principle of the divine economy toward the "nations", in other words, towards men grouped "in their lands, each with [its] own language, by their families, in their nations". [taken from the catechism]

Details of the flood (e.g. its coverage, when it took place etc.) are questions for science, not theology. If scientific evidence is found that supports a full literal interpretation it would still probably not make the unbelievers believe. Jesus said as much when he said only the sign of Jonah (dead three days in the earth Luke 11:29-32) would be given to this wicked generation.
Last edited by AZJoe; May 23,2011 at 4:02pm. Reason: fixed a typo
 
  Reply With Quote
Diana_P is offline Diana_P Post #8  May 23,2011, 12:49pm
Diana_P's Avatar

Board Leader - Religion & Spirituality

Joined: Sep 2010

Posts: 1,118

See profile

Great post! Thanks.
 
  Reply With Quote
hermes01 is offline hermes01 Post #9  May 24,2011, 2:01am
hermes01's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Nov 2010

Posts: 134

See profile

I sometimes write G.O.D. since I dont know what the word FULLY means.

You mention the Trinity. I believe it to be an ancient belief.

The Trinity is ...Father...Son ...and Holy 'Ghost'

The Father is the 'creator'.
The Son the the CREATION
The Holy Ghost is the 'movement ' of the Father In the SON
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply


« What Version... and Why? | Religion & Spirituality | What does it mean to be Spiritual but not religious? »
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Topics
Topic Topic Starter Board Replies Last Post
What limits does the human brain have or is the human brain unlimited? belovedfriend Brain, Soul and Mind 3 November 14,2009 1:15pm

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“ Excellent, thank you. I think I will leave out the first part, I think it is unnecessary information to give him. I'm not interested in putting myself out there like that and it might be a little ... ” –  generallyyou

Join the “Ending a friendship” discussion

“Alfred Hitchcock - 18 Steven Spielberg - 62 *notice what?” –  dmi

Join the “War of the Directors” discussion

“ I would be "certain people" :P The issue isn't a deal-breaker, but a very strong factor preference-wise, for me.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “How much does race play in your dating someone?” discussion

“Love Texas Hold'em!.. I'm thinking of trying another tournament this summer...not sure yet though.. Never entered a tournament before, outside of online ones. Personally I prefer to play with ... ” –  Freezepop

Join the “Favorite Card Game” discussion

“Make that 3! I also had a crush on Donny Osmond. I think I still have a record or two of his. Suzie ” –  legend29

Join the “Robin Gibbs Dead at 62...How Deep is Your Love?” discussion

“Oh, my revised profile can be seen in the forum in the section where you can ask for a profile review. Suzanne” –  SuzanneScorpio

Join the “Photo Review” discussion

“Just remember, everything that you are feeling and/or are capable of he is as well. If he wanted to reach you, he could. Right now he knows that you are hurting, and that this is not what you ... ” –  lynntlb78

Join the “Can I wait and move on at the same time?” discussion

“ Yohio. And the shortened form (Anya) is nice too.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “Where is Becky?!?” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:32am.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0