livenlearn is offline livenlearn Post #61  April 21,2011, 5:19pm
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llw11 wrote :
either way you put it, i can't say in my heart that i believe that the true nature of God is how it is described in the bible. i'm not buying it. i think the true nature of God is far greater than that, far more loving (TRUE LOVE), and yes, truly greater than anything we can imagine.
You got it! Hold on to it tightly.
 
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llw11 is offline llw11 Post #62  April 21,2011, 7:06pm
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livenlearn wrote :
You got it! Hold on to it tightly.
 
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greg75 is offline greg75 Post #63  April 22,2011, 8:10am
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hermes01 wrote :
May I STILL ask the question...

What is the benefit to GOD.....that HE should create hell???

I that too much to ask?

Why does it have to benefit God?
 
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myusernamehere is online now myusernamehere Post #64  April 22,2011, 8:31am
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hermes01 wrote :
May I STILL ask the question...

What is the benefit to GOD.....that HE should create hell???

I that too much to ask?
He doesn't have to spend time with people that don't want to be with him. Would you want to live with people that hated you?
 
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mitchell175 is online now mitchell175 Post #65  April 22,2011, 8:36am
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greg75 wrote :
People send themselves to Hell, because they reject the teachings of Jesus Christ. They do not accept the fact that He is the Son of God, and do not accept Him as their personal Savior. They do not believe in his crucifixion and death to save the world from sin, nor do they believe He rose on the third day.
So, since I do accept Jesus as the Son of God, then I can never go to Hell. Regardless of what else I might do in life. Cool.

wrote :
Living a life of sin with an un-repenting heart will send your soul to Hell according the Word of God.
So, which is it?

wrote :
You have never heard about the Lamb's Book of Life?
I have not.


wrote :
I realize the Catholic faith believes in Purgatory and I know their definitions of it. But, what I find contradictory in the believe of Purgatory is the fact that Jesus died on the cross for ALL of our sins. If we truly repent and give our hearts to Christ, then He takes away ALL of our sins. There would be no need for Christians to enter a Purgatory for further cleansing before entering Heaven.
But, if the only thing that sends you to Hell is rejecting Jesus as the Son of God, then everything else is just an empty threat to get Christians to live a "good life without sin".

wrote :
That is why for me, I can't believe in purgatory. Mind you, I certainly respect your beliefs and really I'm just merely stating what I have grown to believe and understand in my walk of faith. Certainly there are things that I have questioned when I have heard them preached in church, and I go back to research it myself. But I always go back and ask myself, "Does this line up with what Jesus said and why He died for us?" If it doesn't, then I disregard it as truth.
I still don't believe in Hell, for the reasons I gave above. What is "bad enough" to send you there? Who decides that? This is kind of like how if you kill a cop in the line of duty, you automatically get the death penalty. Why? He is not any more (or less) dead than anyone else you might have killed.
 
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greg75 is offline greg75 Post #66  April 22,2011, 9:03am
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llw11:

The bible is full of examples of God's greater love for us. You just need to read it for yourself. Don't worry about what anybody else says to you, just read it for yourself and study the verses.

I certainly hope nobody feels that I am trying to preach to them. Please understand, me coming from a Christian home, a Christian background, I always feel it's important to share my point of view when Christian topics and questions arise. This particular thread, deals with hell. What are the benefits? I don't really feel like it benefits anybody to be there.

I would also add that assuming everybody agreed that there was a Heaven, but all agreed that Hell didn't exist, I would still want to strive to go to Heaven when I die. Why would I want nothingness after my life here? I want the party to continue forever!

Let me just tell you that there have been so many things in my life that God has brought me through, that I can't fathom the thought of it all being just coincidence. Yes, I've had differences with church....who hasn't? I've had differences with other Christians....who hasn't? But, those things should not affect my personal walk with Jesus Christ. A few years ago, I did not want to live anymore. I was depressed, I felt hopeless. This coming from a kid who grew up in a strong Christian home. I tried to commit suicide one night. Yes, I overdosed on pills. It was a miracle I woke up the next morning. It was the brightest, most sunny day I have ever witnessed. No clouds in the sky at all....the sky was the most beautiful blue I had ever seen. And I will never forget hearing this voice inside me saying, "Don't give up, Greg. I need you!" No, it wasn't my parents, it wasn't a girlfriend, wasn't any of my friends. It wasn't me. I know it was God saying this to me. Immediately, after that, I felt like the weight of the world had been lifted off my shoulders. I turned myself around and I started living my life relying more on faith than ever before. And things TURNED AROUND for me! Not to say I haven't went through bad times since then, I have! But, I have gotten through them easier because I don't ever feel like I am going through life alone. I always feel God is there beside me. THAT is the love that you were talking about llw11. I can also cite other times where I should have been killed but wasn't. I'm sure, again, some will call it coincidence or dumb luck, but I believe God was protecting me.

I can't answer why bad things happen to good people, why doesn't God save those who are innocent. I don't believe anybody knows the answers, they just assume those are reasons to justify the non-existence of a loving God. I just know that in my life, I'm a better person for having my faith. I don't feel bitter toward those who don't share my faith, don't need to put them down just because they believe differently. If people have questions about the bible, I will answer them to my best ability, because I enjoy talking to people about Christ. Certainly is my hope that everybody on these forums turns to Christ and accepts Him as their personal Savior. I can only plant the seed. It's up to you to grow it.
 
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greg75 is offline greg75 Post #67  April 22,2011, 9:35am
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mitchell175 wrote :
So, since I do accept Jesus as the Son of God, then I can never go to Hell. Regardless of what else I might do in life. Cool.
Um....sure, if that's what you think I said.

mitchell175 wrote :
So, which is it?
Why does it have to be one or the other? After all, it is not to be contradictory to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that one must live a Christ-like life to make it to Heaven. Not sure I see a one or the other situation here, but apparently you must have.

(hhhmmm...could have sworn there was more to my post than what was quoted.)

mitchell175 wrote :
I have not.
Ps. 69:28: "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living and not be written with the righteous."

mitchell175 wrote :
But, if the only thing that sends you to Hell is rejecting Jesus as the Son of God, then everything else is just an empty threat to get Christians to live a "good life without sin".
Hhhmmm.....that's funny. I could have sworn there was more to my post which clearly stated something opposite of the above bold statement. I guess it's that silly picking and choosing parts of paragraphs to form different meanings. Silly rabbit!


mitchell175 wrote :
I still don't believe in Hell, for the reasons I gave above. What is "bad enough" to send you there? Who decides that? This is kind of like how if you kill a cop in the line of duty, you automatically get the death penalty. Why? He is not any more (or less) dead than anyone else you might have killed.
Well, you still haven't answered my questions about purgatory or did you disregard them when you were picking and choosing points out of my post? If you still don't believe in Hell, that's fine with me. I can only do so much. You have freewill to believe in whatever you wish. I don't believe in purgatory. Cheers!
 
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mitchell175 is online now mitchell175 Post #68  April 22,2011, 5:31pm
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greg75 wrote :
Hhhmmm.....that's funny. I could have sworn there was more to my post which clearly stated something opposite of the above bold statement. I guess it's that silly picking and choosing parts of paragraphs to form different meanings. Silly rabbit!
I did omit some of your post, because it was just stating more of the same. I didn't purposely not quote those other sections to discount what you were saying.

greg75 wrote :
Well, you still haven't answered my questions about purgatory or did you disregard them when you were picking and choosing points out of my post? If you still don't believe in Hell, that's fine with me. I can only do so much. You have freewill to believe in whatever you wish. I don't believe in purgatory. Cheers!
wrote :
And going back to what Jesus stated that He is the way, the truth, and the life, and the only way to God, then who does the further cleansing of sin in Purgatory? If God does it, then why did he need Jesus to come to the Earth to die for our sins? If one of the angels or saints performs the cleansing, then it contradicts the fact that Jesus died for our sins and that He is the only way to salvation.
I thought these were rhetorical questions.
All I can know about Purgatory is what I was taught. I was raised Catholic, and I still consider myself Catholic, even though I don't attend Mass regularly anymore. During Lent, I never eat meat on Fridays (or Ash Wednesday) and I gave up freaking sugar for Lent! Not just "chocolate" or just "cookies" but everything "extra" - even honey and jelly and things like that. So, I don't consider myself very pious in general, but I thought it wouldn't kill me to make a little (or big, for me) sacrifice for Lent.

As for what I was taught, I cannot speak for all Catholics, but I know that I was raised in a very conservative, old, French parish. A couple of times in high school I went with a friend to a different Catholic church, where there was (gasp) singing! And a (double gasp) rock band!! This was unheard of in my parish. They've loosened up a lot since then, but I still remember my early teachings. We were never taught about other religions, or any other alternatives, and certainly were never instructed in The Bible. That's just what I know. I don't know if other Catholics had similar experiences. We were taught about Purgatory in the sense that you go there to repent for your sins before you can move on to Heaven. I don't recall any specific mention of who does this "cleansing". I just always figured "myself". And, that's another thing. I was never big on confession. I have been exactly twice in my life. The first time in second grade for the Sacrament of "First Penance" which you have to do before you can make your First Communion, and then the next time in 9th grade, because we were supposed to go as part of Sunday School, but I always managed to skip out, until my teacher caught me and made me go. I just always figured "Why do I have to sit here and confess my sins to some human man (the Priest) when I could just do my confessing in private directly to God. So, that's what I still do now. And, that's why I don't think that Jesus (in the sense of him as a "man") or anyone else other than God has to "absolve" me of my sins.

Also, as a Catholic, it's more the "Holy Trinity" than viewing any one as a separate entity. That's why I don't ever talk about "walking with Jesus Christ" or "accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior". I am not trying to belittle your own beliefs, just trying to answer based on what I was taught. But, in times of need, I always think of turning to "God", and not "Jesus Christ" or the "Holy Ghost", even though they are technically "equal" in the trinity.
 
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ANDR3W is offline ANDR3W Post #69  April 27,2011, 3:00am
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Is there really a hell? Just because the bible says it and some people believe it doesn't make it true. Are there any good reasons to believe that hell is a real place?
 
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