notamaninpower is offline notamaninpower Post #1  September 18,2010, 9:11am
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anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities

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WHY is your God, and his supposed son, so; angry, wrathful, vengeful, full of hellfire and brimstone, maniacally egotistical, etc., when these are the same exact "sins" they admonish the "flock" to NOT commit, under ANY circumstances?

Are they exempt from their own laws/rules since they are the ONLY "pure" ones??

Also, I would NEVER call someone/something/ANYthing "forgiving and loving" if said forgiveness and love came with a "ONLY IF you bow down to/worship ME" disclaimer (see maniacal egotism above^^).
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #2  September 20,2010, 2:25pm
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Let's take a look at real world examples ...

Let us say you are a teacher ...

Students A and B cheat on a test ...

Student A, when confronted with it admits their guilt/fault and apologizes (read as actually sorry for what they did) and accepts the punishment ...

Student B, when confronted with it denies the guilt/fault, gets beligerant and uses that 'I'll tell my parents on you' attack that causes teachers the world round to roll their eyes ...

When it comes time to determine the punishments for the two students, what do you do?

I know that in my eyes student A's will get a lighter punishment than student B's nearly 100% of the time ...
 
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rix is offline rix Post #3  September 21,2010, 3:26am
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Not if you're dealing with the government or some bureaucracy!

If you are going to sin, sin against God, not the bureaucracy. God will forgive you but the bureaucracy won't.
 
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AudioDad is offline AudioDad Post #4  September 21,2010, 2:10pm
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Rand_011 wrote :
Let's take a look at real world examples ...

Let us say you are a teacher ...

Students A and B cheat on a test ...

Student A, when confronted with it admits their guilt/fault and apologizes (read as actually sorry for what they did) and accepts the punishment ...

Student B, when confronted with it denies the guilt/fault, gets beligerant and uses that 'I'll tell my parents on you' attack that causes teachers the world round to roll their eyes ...

When it comes time to determine the punishments for the two students, what do you do?

I know that in my eyes student A's will get a lighter punishment than student B's nearly 100% of the time ...
Not really a valid comparison to biblical punishments....not even remotely in or near the ballpark. In fact, it's not even really an apples and oranges comparison....more like comparing oranges and orangutans.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #5  September 21,2010, 2:54pm
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Sorry ... But the comparison is valid ... Teachers are in positions of authority (God in a position of ultimate authority) ... Students are not (people are not)... Cheating in class is wrong (related to sins) ...
 
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AudioDad is offline AudioDad Post #6  September 21,2010, 3:15pm
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Rand_011 wrote :
Sorry ... But the comparison is valid ... Teachers are in positions of authority (God in a position of ultimate authority) ... Students are not (people are not)... Cheating in class is wrong (related to sins) ...
I suggest perhaps reading your bible a bit closer. In particular, pay close attention to the judgments meted out by the biblical deity and how they relate to the alleged "crimes" or "sins" committed by those punished.

Again, not even remotely close to the obnoxious student example. At most, the kid will get booted out of the class or the school. That's most certainly not even in the same league as the kids God punished in, for example, 2 Kings 2:23-24. Another gem, Numbers 31: 1-14, is really a kick in the pants. Talk about the punishment (not) fitting the crime. The bible is chock full of this kind of "justice".
Last edited by AudioDad; September 21,2010 at 4:26pm.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #7  September 22,2010, 10:27am
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AudioDad wrote :
I suggest perhaps reading your bible a bit closer. In particular, pay close attention to the judgments meted out by the biblical deity and how they relate to the alleged "crimes" or "sins" committed by those punished.

Again, not even remotely close to the obnoxious student example. At most, the kid will get booted out of the class or the school. That's most certainly not even in the same league as the kids God punished in, for example, 2 Kings 2:23-24. Another gem, Numbers 31: 1-14, is really a kick in the pants. Talk about the punishment (not) fitting the crime. The bible is chock full of this kind of "justice".
Seeing as how there is no such entity on earth that is paralell to God, it stands to reason that when I said a real world example, it was just that ... An example ... I was not intending to limit God within the role of that of a teacher ... I was but taking a common situation to show the flaw in the OP ....

The funny thing is ... When God dispenses justice, it always perfectly fits the sin ... Same with mercy ... And a variety of other things ...

Now, if you are saying that in your eyes the punishment doesn't fit the crime, that is entirely your opinion ... An opinion based on very limited evidence ...

Let's see ... Perfect understanding of the event and all it's implications vs. a very limited understanding ... For some strange reason I have this feeling that the first one has a better handle on things
 
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AudioDad is offline AudioDad Post #8  September 22,2010, 1:43pm
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Rand_011 wrote :
Seeing as how there is no such entity on earth that is paralell to God, it stands to reason that when I said a real world example, it was just that ... An example ... I was not intending to limit God within the role of that of a teacher ... I was but taking a common situation to show the flaw in the OP ....

The funny thing is ... When God dispenses justice, it always perfectly fits the sin ... Same with mercy ... And a variety of other things ...

Now, if you are saying that in your eyes the punishment doesn't fit the crime, that is entirely your opinion ... An opinion based on very limited evidence ...

Let's see ... Perfect understanding of the event and all it's implications vs. a very limited understanding ... For some strange reason I have this feeling that the first one has a better handle on things
Do feel free to provide any additional evidence that would justify the slaughter of every male child (not to mention any pregnant women carrying unborn children who hadn't even had a chance to commit any sins) in the Numbers 31 example. If we are to take the word of biblical inerrantists that the text is complete and accurate in every detail, then one must also conclude that any and all evidence/justification for the actions in that example are already laid out for us.

However, if you're stance is that we as humans cannot understand the mind of God (which is utterly absurd since humans created him in the first place), then you're giving tacit approval for the slaughter of innocent children. What could those children possibly have done to deserve being killed? Wouldn't you as a human be considered a heinous mass murderer for committing the very same act? Why should it be any different for a deity? Basically, we're supposed to behave better than the god we created.
 
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notamaninpower is offline notamaninpower Post #9  September 22,2010, 2:04pm
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AudioDad wrote :
Do feel free to provide any additional evidence that would justify the slaughter of every male child (not to mention any pregnant women carrying unborn children who hadn't even had a chance to commit any sins) in the Numbers 31 example. If we are to take the word of biblical inerrantists that the text is complete and accurate in every detail, then one must also conclude that any and all evidence/justification for the actions in that example are already laid out for us.

However, if you're stance is that we as humans cannot understand the mind of God (which is utterly absurd since humans created him in the first place), then you're giving tacit approval for the slaughter of innocent children. What could those children possibly have done to deserve being killed? Wouldn't you as a human be considered a heinous mass murderer for committing the very same act? Why should it be any different for a deity? Basically, we're supposed to behave better than the god we created.
THANK YOU, Audio Dad!
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #10  September 22,2010, 2:44pm
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AudioDad wrote :
Do feel free to provide any additional evidence that would justify the slaughter of every male child (not to mention any pregnant women carrying unborn children who hadn't even had a chance to commit any sins) in the Numbers 31 example. If we are to take the word of biblical inerrantists that the text is complete and accurate in every detail, then one must also conclude that any and all evidence/justification for the actions in that example are already laid out for us.

However, if you're stance is that we as humans cannot understand the mind of God (which is utterly absurd since humans created him in the first place), then you're giving tacit approval for the slaughter of innocent children. What could those children possibly have done to deserve being killed? Wouldn't you as a human be considered a heinous mass murderer for committing the very same act? Why should it be any different for a deity? Basically, we're supposed to behave better than the god we created.
I am curious ... Did you happen to read the chapters in Numbers before 31? Where the Midianites lead the people of Israel into performing grievous sins? Where the elders of Midian summoned Balaam to curse the people of Israel?

Yes the text is complete and accurate ... Are there conversations that Joseph or Moses or Aaron etc. had that aren't in there? I would say with nearly 100% certainty that is the case ...

The justification is laid out fairly plainly ... The people of Midian were grievous sinners ... They called on Balaam to curse the people of Israel ... Israel won the battle ... Israel occupied the Midianites/Moabites ... The people of Israel succumbed to the temptations of the religious acts of the Moabites/Midianites ... The people of Israel were again commanded to annihilate the Midianites/Moabites and did so then ...(Least they did with the Midianites, I could have sworn there was a later reference to the Moabites)

Yes ... My stance is that we as humans can't understand the mind of God ... God created us ... We are less than God ... Our minds are finite, His is infinite ... Need I continue on down this path of comparing our limits to God's limitless-ness?

Tacit approval for the slaughter of innocent children? Going by the Bible, they weren't innocents ... That is your opinion ... You have no evidence/proof to the contrary (at least that would be my guess) ...

None are free from sin (minus Jesus) ... We all deserve eternal death ...

Different for a diety? There is only one God ... It is rather ludicrous to think that we, His creations, have any right to condemn Him for anything ... Like a wooden puppet condemning the puppet maker for tossing some of the puppet makers' creations into the trash ...
 
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