Is there danger in being "spiritual and not religious"?


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rix is offline rix Post #11  September 17,2010, 12:02am
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The Dec-Feb 2005/2006 issue of What is Enlightenment (issue 31) features a young woman in yoga tights opposite a nun. The theme of the issue was "Spirituality vs. Religion." The issue is in my magazine rack, but the implication of the issue and particular slant of the publication, did not fully hit me until a later date. Then, the thought hit me, as I once again glanced at the cover of the magazine; Are you trying to tell me that the young woman in yoga tights is "spiritual," while the nun is simply "religious;" and is therefore, more "spiritual" by implication? The fully implications of hubris in claiming to be "spiritual, but not religious" did not really dawn on me until thinking it through at that point. It assumes that we ourselves can discern truth from error, so we pick and choose; or just select what is merely fashionable, like the young woman in the Ganesh necklace with no real concern over the deity's tangible existence.

Therefore, in the article, Fr. Martins conclusion about the phrase hinting at egotism I believe is correct and a real danger in making such an assumption. Besides the possibility of leading to "complacency and self-centeredness," as Jesuit priest James Martin further suggested; I believe we also essentially set ourselves up as our own god believing we can decide right from wrong, and decide what is moral from immoral, in making such an assumption.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #12  September 22,2010, 4:25pm
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rix wrote :
The Dec-Feb 2005/2006 issue of What is Enlightenment (issue 31) features a young woman in yoga tights opposite a nun. The theme of the issue was "Spirituality vs. Religion." The issue is in my magazine rack, but the implication of the issue and particular slant of the publication, did not fully hit me until a later date. Then, the thought hit me, as I once again glanced at the cover of the magazine; Are you trying to tell me that the young woman in yoga tights is "spiritual," while the nun is simply "religious;" and is therefore, more "spiritual" by implication? The fully implications of hubris in claiming to be "spiritual, but not religious" did not really dawn on me until thinking it through at that point. It assumes that we ourselves can discern truth from error, so we pick and choose; or just select what is merely fashionable, like the young woman in the Ganesh necklace with no real concern over the deity's tangible existence.

Therefore, in the article, Fr. Martins conclusion about the phrase hinting at egotism I believe is correct and a real danger in making such an assumption. Besides the possibility of leading to "complacency and self-centeredness," as Jesuit priest James Martin further suggested; I believe we also essentially set ourselves up as our own god believing we can decide right from wrong, and decide what is moral from immoral, in making such an assumption.
Actually deciding immorality from morality is self-evident. Any honest assessment of self & one's behavior & consequences of one's behavior as it relates to others would provide those answers.
 
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rix is offline rix Post #13  September 24,2010, 3:43pm
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Happy 1st Anniversary, babe!

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bigfincat wrote :
Actually deciding immorality from morality is self-evident. Any honest assessment of self & one's behavior & consequences of one's behavior as it relates to others would provide those answers.
I agree. The key is as you say an "honest assessment" of the consequences of one's behavior. However, the basis of the thread asked is there a danger in claiming to be "spiritual, but not religious;" and the inherent danger is that can lead to pride, and in becoming a law unto oneself. Then, behavior that gratifies one's selfish desires, and doing one's "own thing" can be done in the name of "spirituality."

But, don't get me wrong, I am a bit of an eclectic, and I tend to be distrustful of all forms of tyranny, and that includes what the founding fathers called "priestcraft," or organized religion. I am distrustful of any system that attempts to control or manipulate people. And, I am not completely against using the self-designated title of being "spiritual, but not religious." However, elevating oneself to the point of spiritual hubris, and then using the cloak of spirituality to justify one's own behavior, and even lawlessness (since one becomes a law unto oneself), I believe are inherent dangers. Therefore, claiming to be "spiritual, but not religious" does come with a couple of caveats.
 
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cp30 is offline cp30 Post #14  September 24,2010, 3:58pm

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I saw this article:

Are there dangers in being 'spiritual but not religious'? - CNN.com

and wondered what the folks here would think.

Do you agree that absence of an organized religion in ones life leaves them less likely to live in a highly moral way?

Thanks in advance for an interesting and respectful discussion.
I'm not part of an "orgnanized relgion" however I answer "christian" and not "spirtual but not religions" because, I am religious, I'm a Christian, it doesn't mean it's organized.

"spirtual but not religious" means, well, spiritual, but not religious.

I give people a chance who state it on the small chance they are Chrstians who don't go to church, and they felt this was the most accurate portrayal, or something like that.

Because, yes, it is actually a big deal to me.

That said, almost everyone I've dated has been agnostic, jewish, or something else.

Thats why it matters...lol
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #15  October 2,2010, 1:29pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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rix wrote :
I agree. The key is as you say an "honest assessment" of the consequences of one's behavior. However, the basis of the thread asked is there a danger in claiming to be "spiritual, but not religious;" and the inherent danger is that can lead to pride, and in becoming a law unto oneself. Then, behavior that gratifies one's selfish desires, and doing one's "own thing" can be done in the name of "spirituality."

But, don't get me wrong, I am a bit of an eclectic, and I tend to be distrustful of all forms of tyranny, and that includes what the founding fathers called "priestcraft," or organized religion. I am distrustful of any system that attempts to control or manipulate people. And, I am not completely against using the self-designated title of being "spiritual, but not religious." However, elevating oneself to the point of spiritual hubris, and then using the cloak of spirituality to justify one's own behavior, and even lawlessness (since one becomes a law unto oneself), I believe are inherent dangers. Therefore, claiming to be "spiritual, but not religious" does come with a couple of caveats.
I'm pretty much in agreement with this.....though I'd say thinking for oneself can lead to many other problems besides pride. Like how when children simply obey what they are told to do not do this can save their lives. When they start thinking for themselves rather than blindly obeying there are always dangers in this.... but it's probably better for them in the long run.

Heck, there are dangers in pretty much everything. There are even potential dangers/risks for women in becoming pregnant....but this doesn't mean they shouldn't do so.
 
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Ph0enix is offline Ph0enix Post #16  October 6,2010, 7:15pm
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I dunno....
-Not having to pay a 10% tithe to a church group (or annual fee cuz I do know they vary per denomination) isn't that bad. Angels didn't try to beat me up for it... Also, Deitific Pantheons seemed alright with me for it too.

- Not having to have what dead people have constructed as what they think "God would want"/what "God thinks" is nice. Dogma is the divider, not God.

Morally... I don't think the word "religion" really entails morals on a level that it can truly carry out for itself.

Generally you gain understanding thru the spiritual connection. In religion you get told "it's wrong or evil" depending on how much "said religion" follows with the physical world. To a certain extent it's like allowing a conditioned response to occur instead of an understanding to grow from.

Now also being part of a religion willingly puts you automatically saying "this is the only way" (even for the self) and puts you in line of saying "past history of said religion is also upright and just". You "holy accept" it as a path. Now the thing I'd have to say to this is that if God's God (huge being, like multifaceted and capable of a ton, all the while being some part of everything , being thru everything and whatever else is beyond everything) why would there only be one path to it all? Not to mention if we all had free will and in turn we have multiple ways thru stuff (keeping in mind we're made in God's image an likeness) is there only one way defined by one "religious group"?

So in light of this stuff for me, if I can learn to read contextually and literally and I pick up the main books (not the dogma but the scriptural stuff) then I should be able to get my own understanding because I'm using my own thoughts to find the understanding & truths there for me.
Personally, morality is something that comes from the understanding of the self with the understanging that there are other selves around you. Religion isn't necessary, a mind that can be open to see that, is.
 
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acelticsteve is offline acelticsteve Post #17  October 18,2010, 1:12pm

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cp30 wrote :
I'm not part of an "orgnanized relgion" however I answer "christian" and not "spirtual but not religions" because, I am religious, I'm a Christian, it doesn't mean it's organized.

"spirtual but not religious" means, well, spiritual, but not religious.

I give people a chance who state it on the small chance they are Chrstians who don't go to church, and they felt this was the most accurate portrayal, or something like that.

Because, yes, it is actually a big deal to me.

That said, almost everyone I've dated has been agnostic, jewish, or something else.

Thats why it matters...lol
There a lot of christians who do go to church that would say they are spiritual and not religonious becuse they, and I am one, see that what they have is a relationship with a person who is verry real to them. They see religon as men setting down a set of rules that that they think will please God. These people believe that God can only be satified by the death of Christ on the cross that has payed the penility for there sins nad turning their lives over to Him can they please God.
You have another catagory that no one would admit to, and that is: religous with out being spirital. Here you end up with a lot of dead rules like don't dance, drink, pay your tithe. From that I think that you can figure out what I think about preachers that preach such and such is sin and not tell people ow to get rid of that sin.

However with out a standard we don't hsve a defination for morality. That is to say what is moral and what is not. like the days of the Judges in the OT every one does what is right in there own eyes. This is why you have people going out to desturb and horrase hunters, by Hindu standards it is wrong but by other standards hunting is permissable. unless each side respects the other's right to their beliefs then there is civle conflict.
 
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