Gods will and sex vs abstinence for older folks


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Lyndra is offline Lyndra Post #21  November 25,2009, 7:41am
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Wonderwoman402 wrote :
I consider myself religious, but probably not in the same definition that you do.

I think the more likely scenario is that they will find out on the wedding night or after that their sexuality needs/wants are not compatible, and it sure would have been better to find that out before tying the knot.

God is a loving and forgiving God. He//She wants us to be happy. Do you really think that if you led a good life, yet slept with your mate prior to marriage, that you would not be let into heaven?

I really agree with Wonderwoman... imo, she is very insightful and has sound advice. I'm a Christian, but I consider myself spiritual, as opposed to being "religious". I believe that God is with us as a guide along our journey and forgives us our transgressions. He knows what trials we face and the human suffering that we experience and yet he's there for us.

I am not advocating that we have a free ticket to participate in pre-marital sex whenever we so desire... but as older, mature people who have come from a divorce or losing a spouse, we are used to a physical relationship and we are suffering from the lack of having that intimacy in our lives.

I personally have come from a divorce from a twenty year marriage and I know that I want to find someone that I am compatible with. Of course I will fall in love with a man's mind and heart first, but I need to know if he desires me and the physical chemistry is there before I commit the rest of my life to him. After having one marriage result in divorce, and the statistics so high for second divorces... I'd like to make sure that I have a chance at beating the odds. I would like to believe that God understands that.
 
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librarybabe is offline librarybabe Post #22  November 25,2009, 9:34am
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Fleuellen wrote :
Well, the bible does provide the solution that should a woman's hsuband die, then her brother in law must marry her. I can't recall if there is a qulification about whether they have children or not. But I do pray stridently for my brothers long and good health!
Too funny! But don't worry Fleuellen. If your brother has had kids, you aren't obliged to marry your sister-in-law! It was just a biblical mandate to make sure that a man had a lineage. If he died without fathering any children, you were supposed to produce a child for him so that he would have a line. Any children fathered after the first would be "yours" but the first son would be your brother's. It goes into that somewhat in the book of Ruth (a nice short little read.)

Wonderwoman402 wrote :
What?!? You think married people should be chaste too? I'll bet that goes over really well with the guys!
Chaste does not equal abstinence.

Merriam Webster definition of chaste is "innocent of unlawful sexual intercourse" or " pure in thought and act". In other words within the context of marriage, chaste would mean being faithful, and not looking for any loopholes to that faithfulness. (ie. no Bill Clinton definition of sex.)

To the OP, a good book to make you think, but not to give you any hard fast rules is "Real Sex, the Naked Truth about Chastity" by Lauren Winner. I highly recommend it to you. It doesn't specifically deal with dating after marriage but it does deal with dating after having sex and about how God is intimately involved with our sex lives. I think choosing to wait will have more to do with our relationship with God and with our loved one than it does with our future sex life. As others said, waiting is no guarantee of great steamy sex.

But I do believe pursuing other aspects of our relationship and unity while delaying sexual intercourse is good and more valuable than we may realize, regardless of how spiritual one is. For those who wish to consider what the benefits of waiting can be without a discussion of religion, another book worth considering is "Mars and Venus on a Date." I know. Everyone has heard enough of the Mars/Venus stuff to gag, but if you actually read some of the stages in the dating process described in the book, it gives you some food for thought. And you can probably find it in almost any public library.
 
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charlie990 is offline charlie990 Post #23  November 25,2009, 10:08am
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The USA is one of the few nations that takes the christain religion seriously en masse.. for answers on sexuality take a brief look at the church's higherarchy ..its ALL old men at the top .. so what are thier motives?? power structures all have a commonality in that those in power want more power ..and it comes at the expense of the rest of us .... if you are a 'believer' I'd suggest you look inside yourself to ascertain "gods will" rather than listen to the words of an individual with limited sexual experience... Sexual drive/desire has a purpose and changes with age ..its very much an individaul thing.. some enduring loves can sustain with NO sex ( example..Gore Vidal and his now deceased partner of over 50yrs Howard Auster) ..for others its the glue that sutsains all ... either way .. the 'rights and wrongs' of sexual relationships are .at best, confusing to most of us..the best course is to use one's instincts ... its like ART ..there are no clearly defined answers that apply to all.. ..
 
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Wonderwoman402 is offline Wonderwoman402 Post #24  November 25,2009, 1:26pm
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lil_lamb wrote :
and not everyone who has sex enjoys it. quite a tremendous lot of people throughout history have not enjoyed it, certainly not with the person they ended up married to.

the crux here is what a "gift" is. a gift is a "nice to have," not a "must." it should make no difference to you whether or not you get gifts. you get married and don't make babies, you don't get that gift, whatever. you have sex and don't like it, you don't that gift, whatever. you get these gifts, wow! that's icing on the cake.

you know, doing your duty always wins more merit than merely doing what you like. being holy is loving to do your duty. sometimes we mistake "love is the greatest thing of all" to mean we should do what we love; it doesn't mean that. it means we should love what we are obliged to do.
I don't intend to get married again unless I do enjoy sex with my mate, so for me sex will not be a "gift" in your definition, but a "must have." I already have children and no longer desire (nor would it be physically prudent) for me to have more.

I'm not sure what "duty" you're referring to, but I have been in a marriage where I had "duty sex" and I will never, ever, ever be in that situation again. I do not believe "duty sex" is holy, nor do I believe it is what God wants. I am NOT obligated to have sex with anyone, married or not!
 
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lil_lamb is offline lil_lamb Post #25  November 26,2009, 12:08am
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Wonderwoman402 wrote :
I don't intend to get married again unless I do enjoy sex with my mate, so for me sex will not be a "gift" in your definition, but a "must have." I already have children and no longer desire (nor would it be physically prudent) for me to have more.

I'm not sure what "duty" you're referring to, but I have been in a marriage where I had "duty sex" and I will never, ever, ever be in that situation again. I do not believe "duty sex" is holy, nor do I believe it is what God wants. I am NOT obligated to have sex with anyone, married or not!
well, i'd have to say yes that's most certainly true - sex would be no gift for you then, not in a theological sense.

but i can't truly comment on your personal situation, how the principles apply to your personal specifics. i know nothing about you, and even if i did, it wouldn't be appropriate. abstractly, technically, one is only able to have one sacramental marriage while both parties still live. maybe you didn't have a sacramental marriage. no doubt you are a victim, as we all are, of the fall out from the... fall. that's how the story goes anyways. we all make have to make our choices and pick our way through the rubble.

i am curious, though, how you'd feel about giving up sex for the sake of someone, for love. or giving up "companionship."

personally, you know, i'm more inclined to personal companionship. i use that term because it's broader than "sex," like i believe "marriage" is. i don't suppose, for the sake of honesty, that's why i've declined to marry all these years. i do say "what about me?"

my parents weren't like me. they had many rough years where they were quite cruel to each other, but they were both 100% committed to their marriage. it's interesting because in the end, all-told added up to a romantic story that goes down as monumental.
 
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Wonderwoman402 is offline Wonderwoman402 Post #26  November 26,2009, 9:31am
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lil_lamb wrote :
... abstractly, technically, one is only able to have one sacramental marriage while both parties still live. maybe you didn't have a sacramental marriage. ...
I completely absolutely do NOT believe that God judges us on "technicalities!" I have a real hard time with those who are also judgmental based on their interpretations of what they believe are God's "technicalities." Please know that not every Christian, nor every religious person, shares your views on "technicalities" and just because their views are different does not make your views right and theirs wrong.

I was married. Now I am not. It is irrelevant in the scheme of love, life and spirit whether I had a "sacramental" marriage or not (a term which would also be open to wide interpretation depending on your beliefs). If I choose to be married again in the future, it will be just as valid of a marriage.

I do not intend to sacrifice sex for companionship, nor companionship for sex, which seems to be your question.

And by the way, I do not consider myself to be a "victim." We all make life choices. We all live with the consequences. I take full responsibility for my choices and my actions. I also take full responsibility for seeing to it that I make choices that work for me in the future. God gave us all the gift of free will.
 
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lil_lamb is offline lil_lamb Post #27  November 26,2009, 1:55pm
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Wonderwoman402 wrote :
I completely absolutely do NOT believe that God judges us on "technicalities!" I have a real hard time with those who are also judgmental based on their interpretations of what they believe are God's "technicalities." Please know that not every Christian, nor every religious person, shares your views on "technicalities" and just because their views are different does not make your views right and theirs wrong.

I was married. Now I am not. It is irrelevant in the scheme of love, life and spirit whether I had a "sacramental" marriage or not (a term which would also be open to wide interpretation depending on your beliefs). If I choose to be married again in the future, it will be just as valid of a marriage.

I do not intend to sacrifice sex for companionship, nor companionship for sex, which seems to be your question.

And by the way, I do not consider myself to be a "victim." We all make life choices. We all live with the consequences. I take full responsibility for my choices and my actions. I also take full responsibility for seeing to it that I make choices that work for me in the future. God gave us all the gift of free will.
why?

for example, if it's irrelevant whether or not you had a sacramental marriage, who cares? why get married? why say you were married?

i don't care.
 
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olrowe is offline olrowe Post #28  November 26,2009, 3:05pm
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LookinUp wrote :
Wow - where did all the religious people go? Is everyone dropping their stones and walking away?

Do you talk to your boyfriends BEFORE having sex to discover expectations for the relationship - and about preferences ...or do you just go with the flow.

Im sort of disaapointed that no one has appeared to enourage me to WAIT. ...oh there was another assumption.
I am spiritual, not religous, but I know the bible very well. So, I know that Abraham was religous and one of the most righteous men in the bible and he slept with his house keeper as a married man.
I also know that there were some characters in the bible who had more than 1 wives. So I am not sure what guidance to glean from religion and pre-marital sex, especially since marriage is a legal and not a religous institution.

Is sex likely to be better because you have talked about it. Like anything else, talk is cheap. My personal experience is that the more men talk about it, the less likely they are to be good at it. Also since sex is an act with 2 or more, no one person can say what it is going to be like, because it will always be different for each couple. I suppose one of the advantage of abstaining is the curiousity . . . Enjoy!
 
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olrowe is offline olrowe Post #29  November 26,2009, 3:18pm
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wrote :
am not advocating that we have a free ticket to participate in pre-marital sex whenever we so desire... but as older, mature people who have come from a divorce or losing a spouse, we are used to a physical relationship and we are suffering from the lack of having that intimacy in our lives
I am going to be controversial here. Why should someone not have a free ticket to pre-marital sex. I am 43 and never been married, is it expected that I should not have had sex? Or should I have gotten married to the first person that came along so I could have the right to have sex.
Sex is a physical act and an animalistic instinct (not unlike reproduction or eating). Marriage is a legal institution. It is true that sex is a part of marriage, but it is not the same as marriage and does not need marriage in order to happen.
 
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KDOYLE is offline KDOYLE Post #30  November 27,2009, 4:30am
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I am a follower of Christ, divorced (before conversion) and celibate for over a year. I'm celibate because that is what the Bible commands. In the book of Matthew, Jesus says, "If you love me keep my commandments." I love Christ and don't want to consciously do anything that would offend him.

So I guess the bottom line about abstinence, at least for my, is my faith. Sex is to be between a married man and woman. Do I get sexually urges? Oh yes! Do
I know God has put that urge in me? Yes! But he has also instilled in me self-control. You must have control over your urges or they will inevitably gain control over you.

In the practical sense, having control over sexual urges keeps you from falling
into sexual relationships that are not going to be good for you. On this I can speak with authority. I got married because me and my ex-wife had unbelievable sex; however, when the problems came about we both found out that that great sex was not enough.

I know God wants the best for me. The Bible says he has a better plan for my life than I could possibly imagine. In order to obtain fulfill this plan, however, I must do two things; trust and obey.

Hopes this gives you a clearer view from the "religious" out here.
 
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