blackprince11 is offline blackprince11 Post #21  February 28,2009, 9:56pm
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Not all religions hold up to truth, at least depending on the process and elements of the belief system. Any belief system has to have logical consistency, empirical adequacy and experiential relevance. The Judeo-Christian belief system is exclusive because it follows not only this level of coherence and continuity, but specifically addresses origin, condition, salvation and destiny. We know what life is like after death because we have the person of Jesus Christ. All these concepts make the Judeo-Christian belief system complete. The Atheist by virtue of not having anything from which to establish their definitions choose to simply discard the Torah or Bible as evidence and witness to its viability as evidence.

The Hindu Upanishad states nothingness is where life comes from, this is an incomplete system. Even Gautama Buddha used terms like heaven and hell even though in classical Buddhism it’s none-theistic. What this proves for all of us is a struggle to find person hood, a struggle to find relationships, a struggle to explain what is good and what is evil, as well as finding meaning.

Ask any Muslim and they will tell you that the Qur’an is word for word perfect (in only one language). The Muslim will say it’s a perfect revelation of Allah in the eye of a Muslim. They will affirm that again and again. That’s why no translation of the Qur’an will do justice in their estimation of the Qur’an, it is the perfect expression of Allah himself as dictated to Muhammad who recited it. Out-side of Allah there is nothing else, this does not account for origin, condition, salvation and destiny, consistently or coherently.

As far as science is concerned there isn't a reputable scientist in the professional field or in academics that has definitively or quantifiably defined origin. What science has discovered or will discover would have already existed. So unless science can transcend time they can't definitively define or account for origin.

The essence of the scientific method is empiricism, the acquisition of knowledge through the experiences of our senses. Science, then, does not begin with what is definitely known. Instead, it allows evidence, which must be interpreted, to lead the inquirer where it will.

Our scientific laws are simply the result of observed uniformities. If I let go of my car keys, they fall to the ground. This happens each time I drop them; so we theorize and construct the Law of Gravity. Although we accept this as a fact, it is not proved as such. Instead, we have reached a conclusion (or proposed a theory) by induction, not deduction. Induction is a philosophical term given to the process of using evidence to reach a wider conclusion: The evidence infers that your conclusion is the best explanation.

Logic demands that only deductive knowledge is strictly provable. To deduce something we must start with a truth ‘definitely known’ and then by the logical process of inference arrive at certain facts that bring us to a conclusion.

C.S. Lewis mentions about ethics, when a ship goes out to the high seas there are three questions it must answer, number one, why is it out there in the first place, number two how to keep from sinking and number three, how to keep from bumping into other ships.

The first questions answers essential ethics (why are we out here), the second answers individual ethics (how to keep from self destruction) and the third one answers social ethics (how to keep from bumping into one another).

Unless you really know why you’re out there in the first place keeping from bumping into one another is merely a secondary notion.

Objective moral values exist only if God exist. Objective moral values do exist therefore God exist (this is elementary logic). The Naturalist can say I don’t have to accept that, but out-side of God they aren’t able to anchor objective moral values, yet intuitively they know that some objective moral values can be so certain within their own mind. Yet, they are unable to anchor it, they then move away from it to try and come out with some other explanations, maybe a subjective notion of this.

When Ravi Zacharias was at the University Nottingham, a student said, there is too much evil in this world there cannot be a God. Ravi said to him, but sir, when you say there is such a thing as evil aren’t you assuming there is such a thing as good? Yes, said the student. Then Ravi said, when you say there is such a thing as good, aren’t you assuming there is a moral law and the basis from which to differentiate between good and evil?

The student struggled for a while and said, I will grant you that. Ravi continued by saying, when you say there is such a thing as a moral law aren’t you in some way assuming there is a moral law giver, because if there is no moral law giver there is no moral law, if there is not moral law there is no absolute good, if there is no good there is no evil what is your question, because you are trying to disprove the moral law giver.

The student stood stun for a minute and said what then am I asking you?
You are very intelligent and extreemly well versed and studied in this subject and you have still managed to assume alot about the orgins of existence and the history of moral thought. I will go through this with you line by lineand explain to you how your extreemly intelectual mind has managed to mix logic and religion which before conversing with you I didnt think was possible. First, ther is no consistency to speak of in the Judeo-Christian belief system. This belief system IS unique in the sense that it has evolved throught its history to accomodate the needs of the political/economic systems that have used it to justify their desires at that particular time i.e. Peter and his desire for vengance against the Roman Empire for percieved crimes against humanity, Emperor Constantine in an attempt to keep the Roman Empire from being split in 2 by religious fanatics, various monarchies in Europe and the Middle East to controll large and diverse populations and wage war at will, the Brittish Empire to justify world imperialism and the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, and the US to justify, first, slavery and then to justify a Right-wing neo-Facist ultra-conservative movement that exists to this day in thereligiousright that seeks to maintain an Anglo-Saxon Christian male status quo. All of the concepts of god having many different natures is only a way of justifying huge inconsistencies in the bible and with contemporary biblical teachings. Second, why do you assume that because we are here that someone had to put us here? If you leave a piece of fruit in therefrigerator long enough it will rot, by your logicsomeone would've had to putthe rot there instead of the rot being a natural stage in the life and death ofthat piece of fruit.Third, Islam is just asfull of crap as every other belief system that claims to know what happens when you die so the fact that they say that no translation does it any justice dosent suprise me one bit. Fourth, you are correct when you say that sciencedoes not start with the definite and cant completely account for origin but noone can, because none of us was there, but evolution is a heck of alot more plausable than a space-god creating everything, for the simple fact that nomater what 2+2 will always equal 4 nomater which interpretation one uses. Fifth, you are the first person since the Dark Ages to refer to gravity as a "proposed theory" so Im not even going to go there because thats a whole other discussion(but interesting though I'll admit). Sixth, people who support the notion that if there were no god then there would be no moral values severly underestimate the human race. Why is it so hard to believe that humans in our history here on Earthhavent learned a few things about how to deal with one another in a manner that reduces the event of person to person, tribe to tribe, or nation to nation conflict? Contrary to some peoples opinion we've been here an awful long time to not have naturally developed a sense that some things that we do cause inherent discord and suffering. We dont need a space-god to tell us that murder is wrong because most of us have people in our lives that are dear to us and their untimely demise would hurt us emotionally (another one of those 2+2=4 things as far as I'm concerned, nothing magical about that). Seventh, good and evil are man made concepts that connotate the duality of human nature. We have the capacity to great and wonderful things and we also have the capacity to do horrible and destructive things it depends on the person and their state of mind. Even the interpretation of those things is subjective to time and geography i.e. for a long time in this country it was illegal to teach a black person to read (in some areas), now is the fact that someone could be legally penalized for that act make it inherently wrong or is the penalization simply due to a group of people in power getting together and saying " We're going to punish people who do this because we have a political and economic system that depends on blacks being at our mercy as a permanent underclass and their education threatens that system."? At one point in time it was legal to buy and sell a black man as a piece of cattle, now did legality make that act morally good, or was it still inherently evil at its conception to do thus and a group of people in power got together and said "We dont care if its wrong because theres too much money to be made to have morals on this matter."? Good and evil are simply two states of the human condition and are subjective to time, date, location and what civilizations standards and principles are being applied to the act, nonact, or situation, unless we're talking about things that are wrong everywhere like rape and murder and even then there are circumstances that change perception of the event or act i.e. murdering someone in cold blood isseverely punishedjust about everywhere in the world but a person that kills in a time of war is reveered as a hero. It saddens me to see otherwise intelligent people like yourself talk themselves into believing in a space-god. Comon man, you're way too smart for that, but you just cant see the forrest for the trees! If you really follow your logic to its logical conclusion evolution is much more plausable than intelligent design.
 
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Gary21228 is offline Gary21228 Post #22  March 10,2009, 11:04pm
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My view on athiesm is the same as my view of other religions: You have a right to your beliefs. You respect my right to my beliefs, I will respect your right to yours.
 
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blackprince11 is offline blackprince11 Post #23  March 11,2009, 6:41am
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My view on athiesm is the same as my view of other religions: You have a right to your beliefs. You respect my right to my beliefs, I will respect your right to yours.
I'm glad that there are some poeple that think the way that you do, but I wish that people like you would challenge the people amongst you to ask questions and demand answers from the religious power structure that leads them blindly away from the light of wisdom and knowledge and towards the eternal sleep and intelectual death of religion! I'm not saying thatYOU don't challenge the people around YOU, because I don't know you, but it would be nice if more people who think like you would do that little piece of repair to our American Culture.
 
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cynamon68 is offline cynamon68 Post #24  March 11,2009, 7:31am
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I just don't understand why people think that you have committed intellectual suicide just because one happens to believe in God. The one thing that no one seems to bring up is faith. That is crux of belief. While some think that faith is a crutch, I see it as hope. Hope that there is more to us than just getting by through this life for no reason at all. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. All people are given a choice as to believe or not to believe. I have found that many do not want to hear that because that freedom to choose takes away the ability to blame God for bad things that happen whether it be in the form of natural disasters, death, sickness, war, and other evil things that happen every day. I have also found that God is bigger than any questions we have and is fully able to answer those questions. He is God, he can handle it. Hopefully, I won't be completely sliced and diced because of this post. I am writing this in a spirit of peace.
 
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outlaw1 is offline outlaw1 Post #25  March 11,2009, 7:45am

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Hello, I'm an atheist and have been my entire life.Now I'm not going to get into the reasons why i'm an atheist because that would basically be describing my whole self, and who really has time for that? What I want to address is the general unappreciation towards atheists, our beliefs, and how we think. I feel as if (in America) every religion is openly accepted except for atheism. Now why am I calling atheism a religion? I classify religion as a set of beliefs on how the world or universe works. Under this definition, atheism is certainly a religion. Atheists simply don't take the generalstandpoint of supernatural forces driving life, and certainly do not believe in the selling point of almost every religion (promise of eternal life).


I think life is amazing and wonderful, and I do not feel the need to try to simplify this mysterious phenomena by accepting the teachings of any book written thousands of years ago (or thousands of days ago for that matter). I believe what I can experience or comprehend, not what I am told. Now, in no way do I attribute my way of thinking to any other atheists because frankly I have no idea how other people came about their beliefs. I do believe that everyone has the potential to be a good person, and that this goodness usually does not depend on religion.


Back to the topic, I want to say that being an atheist does not mean being bitter, angry, or unintelligent. It doesn't involve hating the world, being confused, or not taking care of yourself. It does not mean a lack of values, morals, or character. It means (for me)being at peace with how I see the world, andliving life to find my own happiness andfulfillment, while adhering to what I believe is right.I hope what I said was clear and I hope to see what other people think of atheism.


I know people may claim to accept everyone, but think about this. Now it is amazing enough that we have anAfrican American President. But imaginetheday when an atheist becomes president. Or for that matter, a non christian/catholic? I can't see it, can you?Haha and if we have had one in the last 100 years please correct me.
I saw the group below. It might be for you:





http://advice.eharmony.com/group/854...--science.html
 
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blackprince11 is offline blackprince11 Post #26  March 11,2009, 10:41am
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I just don't understand why people think that you have committed intellectual suicide just because one happens to believe in God. The one thing that no one seems to bring up is faith. That is crux of belief. While some think that faith is a crutch, I see it as hope. Hope that there is more to us than just getting by through this life for no reason at all. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. All people are given a choice as to believe or not to believe. I have found that many do not want to hear that because that freedom to choose takes away the ability to blame God for bad things that happen whether it be in the form of natural disasters, death, sickness, war, and other evil things that happen every day. I have also found that God is bigger than any questions we have and is fully able to answer those questions. He is God, he can handle it. Hopefully, I won't be completely sliced and diced because of this post. I am writing this in a spirit of peace.
First of all, to intentionally shut-out logic and reason, to whatever end, IS a form of intellectual suicide, even if it does make you feel better on the inside or sleep better at night. Second, hope, REAL hope, is to desire for things that have a remote possibility of happening in the real world, absent the logical possibility of somthing happening, then it's no longer hope, it's a pipedream, a fairytail, a bedtime story that we tell ourselves. Legalizing marijuana is a hope; the rapture is a pipedream.Third, nothing exists that is not seen or can at least be proven to be, by the scientific process of deduction, period! Fourth, if god is so much bigger than all of the questions the he left unanswered(nudge, nudge, wink, wink) then when is he gonna answer them? There's only space and opportunity, what's he waiting for? And as to your last statement about being "silced and diced", I don't want to do that to anyone; I do not want to destroy that which I seek tosave!I say what I say out of love for the human race in general and the American country in particular. I want so very much for us as a people to grow up and put away childish things and stop creating these nonexistent barriers between us like religion, race, political affiliation, and and economic status. Wake up America, it's time to awaken and make progress as a world civilization, 7 continents, one struggle, one love! Peace be unto you, cynamon68.
 
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cynamon68 is offline cynamon68 Post #27  March 11,2009, 1:37pm
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I just don't understand why people think that you have committed intellectual suicide just because one happens to believe in God. The one thing that no one seems to bring up is faith. That is crux of belief. While some think that faith is a crutch, I see it as hope. Hope that there is more to us than just getting by through this life for no reason at all. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. All people are given a choice as to believe or not to believe. I have found that many do not want to hear that because that freedom to choose takes away the ability to blame God for bad things that happen whether it be in the form of natural disasters, death, sickness, war, and other evil things that happen every day. I have also found that God is bigger than any questions we have and is fully able to answer those questions. He is God, he can handle it. Hopefully, I won't be completely sliced and diced because of this post. I am writing this in a spirit of peace.


First of all, to intentionally shut-out logic and reason, to whatever end, IS a form of intellectual suicide, even if it does make you feel better on the inside or sleep better at night. Second, hope, REAL hope, is to desire for things that have a remote possibility of happening in the real world, absent the logical possibility of somthing happening, then it's no longer hope, it's a pipedream, a fairytail, a bedtime story that we tell ourselves. Legalizing marijuana is a hope; the rapture is a pipedream.Third, nothing exists that is not seen or can at least be proven to be, by the scientific process of deduction, period! Fourth, if god is so much bigger than all of the questions the he left unanswered(nudge, nudge, wink, wink) then when is he gonna answer them? There's only space and opportunity, what's he waiting for? And as to your last statement about being "silced and diced", I don't want to do that to anyone; I do not want to destroy that which I seek tosave!I say what I say out of love for the human race in general and the American country in particular. I want so very much for us as a people to grow up and put away childish things and stop creating these nonexistent barriers between us like religion, race, political affiliation, and and economic status. Wake up America, it's time to awaken and make progress as a world civilization, 7 continents, one struggle, one love! Peace be unto you, cynamon68.
Why do we have to shut out logic and reasoning to believe in God? For me personally, science just confirms my belief. Just looking at all the evidence, dinosaurs, how the earth continually changes, how the earth came to be from nothing...I believe that it was not a huge cosmic gaffe. To address your question that if God is so much bigger than our unanswered questions and when will he answer them, I again have to rely on faith. In faith, I believe that God created our world. Whether it took him a literal 7 days or 7 billion years, I have to rely on faith that I don't understand God's time and space. My mind is finite. Faith takes up the slack that leaves me open to what is infinite. Peace to you blackprince11.
 
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blackprince11 is offline blackprince11 Post #28  March 11,2009, 4:04pm
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I just don't understand why people think that you have committed intellectual suicide just because one happens to believe in God. The one thing that no one seems to bring up is faith. That is crux of belief. While some think that faith is a crutch, I see it as hope. Hope that there is more to us than just getting by through this life for no reason at all. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. All people are given a choice as to believe or not to believe. I have found that many do not want to hear that because that freedom to choose takes away the ability to blame God for bad things that happen whether it be in the form of natural disasters, death, sickness, war, and other evil things that happen every day. I have also found that God is bigger than any questions we have and is fully able to answer those questions. He is God, he can handle it. Hopefully, I won't be completely sliced and diced because of this post. I am writing this in a spirit of peace.


First of all, to intentionally shut-out logic and reason, to whatever end, IS a form of intellectual suicide, even if it does make you feel better on the inside or sleep better at night. Second, hope, REAL hope, is to desire for things that have a remote possibility of happening in the real world, absent the logical possibility of somthing happening, then it's no longer hope, it's a pipedream, a fairytail, a bedtime story that we tell ourselves. Legalizing marijuana is a hope; the rapture is a pipedream.Third, nothing exists that is not seen or can at least be proven to be, by the scientific process of deduction, period! Fourth, if god is so much bigger than all of the questions the he left unanswered(nudge, nudge, wink, wink) then when is he gonna answer them? There's only space and opportunity, what's he waiting for? And as to your last statement about being "silced and diced", I don't want to do that to anyone; I do not want to destroy that which I seek tosave!I say what I say out of love for the human race in general and the American country in particular. I want so very much for us as a people to grow up and put away childish things and stop creating these nonexistent barriers between us like religion, race, political affiliation, and and economic status. Wake up America, it's time to awaken and make progress as a world civilization, 7 continents, one struggle, one love! Peace be unto you, cynamon68.


Why do we have to shut out logic and reasoning to believe in God? For me personally, science just confirms my belief. Just looking at all the evidence, dinosaurs, how the earth continually changes, how the earth came to be from nothing...I believe that it was not a huge cosmic gaffe. To address your question that if God is so much bigger than our unanswered questions and when will he answer them, I again have to rely on faith. In faith, I believe that God created our world. Whether it took him a literal 7 days or 7 billion years, I have to rely on faith that I don't understand God's time and space. My mind is finite. Faith takes up the slack that leaves me open to what is infinite. Peace to you blackprince11.
Okam's Razor(I think I'm spelling it wrong), are you farmiliar with the term? Well, if you aren't, it'sworld renowned as being the universal dividing yard stick in deciding logical conclusions to those Gordian Knot type questions and problems in science and also everyday life. It ishailed as the one of the most accurate scientific theories ever theorized, right up there with gravity and the shape of the Earth. I stressTHEORY, because lots of theories havebeen proven wrong in the course of history(but not likely in this case).Okam's razor(somthing keeps telling me thatI'm spelling it wrong), states that the simplest explination to any given problem is usually theanswer. Now, I realize that I live in a countrywhere34% of the population believes in friggin angels, and still, I'mshocked at some of the answers that I getto this question: What is more probable? An invisible man that lives in the sky creating not only this planet and us,but this solar system, galaxies, stars, quasars, blackholes, meteors, comets Diet Coke, and porn. Afterwhich he gave us instincts and then, intentionally, set the rules in opposition. He or she's all knowing, is everyone at once, and is of infinite power and stregnth, and has a chance, with all of this future insite, to inspiremen to write a book that supposes to contain his word for all mankind for all eternity, perfect and unchanging, right? Right! He or she just happened to omit most if not all of the most debated questions of our time; abortion, gay marrage, racial discrimination just to name a few, and you know it's true. Or is it more probable that life isnt a mistake but rather randomly inherent throughout the universe. The host planetscorrect distance from a source of heat and light along with the correct amount of base compounds like hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon in our case, as humans, will create the conditions that will allow life on a sub-atomic level to flourish and if said conditions are a constant and not random then life would have time to evolve into higher lifeforms with small organisms oftheir own that regulate body systems and allow for a larger amount of the brain and neural pathways to be devoted to memory, reasoning, speech, love, hate, and indifference. You must remember that humans and chimpanzees only have a 4% difference in genitic material but that 4% gives us William Shakespear and Joseph Stalin. With the size of the universe this process probably run its course millions of times and is set to run billions of times more. Now, in my opinion the latter is much more plausable because with everything about that theory that we don't know for sure, it's in the realm of possibility, and when and ifevidence presents itself we can measure it definitivly and calculate falsehood or truth. According to religion if you don't believe it then you don't have faith and ithides behind ambiguity and double-standards that masquerade as divine wisdom that will be imparted onto the faithful when they die and have tea and scones withgod and St. Peterat thePearly Gate Cafe',to maintain their voice in the hearts of men and women that try to make it into somthing good, butit always ends up being just another system of control rooted in bigotry and fear of women. Why would god give me the mind that I have to question and demand evidence before I commit my life to something and deny myself the desires of my heart only to send me to hell for all eternity for it? It dosent make sense! In the eternal words of Judge Judy " Things that don't make sense tend to not be true." I love that woman! And Shalom to you sir or madam.
 
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Gary21228 is offline Gary21228 Post #29  March 11,2009, 7:40pm
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My view on athiesm is the same as my view of other religions: You have a right to your beliefs. You respect my right to my beliefs, I will respect your right to yours.


I'm glad that there are some poeple that think the way that you do, but I wish that people like you would challenge the people amongst you to ask questions and demand answers from the religious power structure that leads them blindly away from the light of wisdom and knowledge and towards the eternal sleep and intelectual death of religion! I'm not saying thatYOU don't challenge the people around YOU, because I don't know you, but it would be nice if more people who think like you would do that little piece of repair to our American Culture.
So what you are saying is that you would think more highly of Christians if they'd just act more like athiests? This is one of the things that gets my proverbial goat. By using phrases like "intellectual death" and "turning away from the light of wisdom"you seem to imply that thoseof religious faith are intellectually inferior to yourself.


That's not showing respect for another person's beliefs...... Did I pass any judgement on your beliefs?
 
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blackprince11 is offline blackprince11 Post #30  March 11,2009, 10:39pm
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My view on athiesm is the same as my view of other religions: You have a right to your beliefs. You respect my right to my beliefs, I will respect your right to yours.


I'm glad that there are some poeple that think the way that you do, but I wish that people like you would challenge the people amongst you to ask questions and demand answers from the religious power structure that leads them blindly away from the light of wisdom and knowledge and towards the eternal sleep and intelectual death of religion! I'm not saying thatYOU don't challenge the people around YOU, because I don't know you, but it would be nice if more people who think like you would do that little piece of repair to our American Culture.


So what you are saying is that you would think more highly of Christians if they'd just act more like athiests? This is one of the things that gets my proverbial goat. By using phrases like "intellectual death" and "turning away from the light of wisdom"you seem to imply that thoseof religious faith are intellectually inferior to yourself.


That's not showing respect for another person's beliefs...... Did I pass any judgement on your beliefs?
I don't want to try and make it seem like either Athiests or Christians have a registered trademark on moral behavior but I would like some concessions from the other side and we can discuss concessions from this side. Like the moral crusade that alot of Christian(s)(based groups)like to wage against anyone or anything that they SAY that the bible tells them is immoral political organizing against Gays andLesbians,, how about lifting the tax on weddings that take place without counciling; which in and of itselfisn't a bad idea but Churches and ministers are the only ones that provide this service for free or cheap, everyone else charges hundreds of dollars which is a defacto tax on matrimony outside of the church, how about ending the War on Drugs which has its roots in the Right-Wing religious conservative movement and immediately replaced the War on Poverty as soon as it was really getting attention in the early 80's. And by the way, I didn't say intellectual death, I said intellectualsuicide, which connotates willfullignorance, and the opportunity to choose a different path if one only chooses. And I don't necessarily think that anyone is intellectually inferior to me, because even those that have "faith" have had the presence of mind and intelligence to ask themselves the same questions deep down in places that they don't talk about at dinner-parties or while congregating after church, but for the sake of, I think, familliarity, social pressure and maybethe need to be accepted by their families and the community at large, maybe they convince themselves to not rock the boat. I know thats what kept me in the fold for so long. I think that there are allot ofpeople that think like me but, I might have a special way of percieving or expressing the reality of what's all around us. Now, if that makes anyone feel "inferior" to me, then I suggest they sit down and talk to a therapist because there are some issues goin on under the surface there that are sooooo not about me. I mean, I just sayin'. As to the passing of judgement,you have the right to judge if you are willing to take a self assesment and be honest about things that you as Christians may need to change about the way thatmost of you view non-believers, if you're not doing that, then it's just fingerpointing and people recognize it for what it is and are getting really tired of that little fact about the religious establishment in this country. For instance, I happen to feel that allot of Athiests view Christian males as Ned Flanders and I think that that's a generalization that isnot true. We can stop assuming that all Christians are againstNon-Believers.We could give Christians a little credit for upholding Jesus because he was a great and mighty profit and king and a stellar example to live ones life by, Christians just lose me with the whole immaculate conception and the son of god thing,I'm sorry,it just sounds made up to me, I'm sorry!I challenge you or anyone else who reads this blog who is a Christian to reply with three things that you honestly think thatthe church could do to improve relations with other groups in this country; other than conversion to your beliefs. Let's see how REAL you really are. You say your faith gives you stregnth then prove it! Can you look into the mirror and judge and be judged alike? Or did your Christianity loose its stregnth at the council of Nicea when the true message of the bible andJesus, not just St. Peter,wasdistorted for all time? Peace be unto you my brother.
 
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“Agree. Given where you are emotionally, I would cease all communication with Mr. Trade Show. You're vulnerable. He's up for a challenge. It's playing with fire. You'll be in a bad place in the ... ” –  emma_hazards

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“How about phone calls, then?” –  barbarella_42

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“I have never spoken to a woman like he has. Yeah, I have never spoken to a woman like that either. It is a hard call to whether he is just as jerk, or whether he is a player. Both are feasible ... ” –  ScottK

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“I have come to this same conclusion. Thank you.” –  bibittyboo

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“Harmonygirl, I do not usually make up my mind on blanket situations but instead would examine each one on it's own merits, so I cannot answer your question. However, just in the going about of daily ... ” –  Ephemera

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“I was ok until the kiss on the cheek part....That doesn't sound like your defenses were up at all... It's one thing for a guy to walk up and start with the cheesy lines....But as soon as I say, "no ... ” –  Ingytravel

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“ No. It is not wise. You have to throw all your eggs into one basket for love to work at all. Relationships are inherently riskier than careers. You can't use the same rules. You might lose ... ” –  harnomygirl

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