livenlearn is offline livenlearn Post #101  December 11,2009, 1:11pm
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Yay! spring has sprung.

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tweet37 wrote :
I'm sorry dude, but your post is almost impossible to read. Spellcheck may help you translate it.
So you copied the whole thing in quotes?
What were you thinking????
I downloaded the spell check from here and it doesnt work.
 
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AngelaH is offline AngelaH Post #102  March 16,2010, 1:18am
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
There is no reason to give an idea stock until there is some evidence to show that it could exist in reality.
Then none of us has reason to give the idea of the atom any credence. I don't know about you, but I don't have a way to show you a handful of atoms!

There are many things in science that we accept (provisionally) as true even though we don't have an concrete evidence...usually because it just makes the math work. (Things like dark matter and string theory and particles that can never go slower than the speed of light.)

Of course, on the other end, lots of people accepted the principle of the arrow of time even though the math worked either way!

Heck, in science, the only way to progress is to start with a null hypothesis, which, in a sense, is giving an idea stock before you have evidence! And if you go to any science conference, you'll find it full of scientists with their pet theories which they wholeheartedly believe and support and defend...all with varying degrees of evidence to back it up.

BUT, I do agree that one should always demand evidence and strive to find evidence and be open-minded and look for evidence for AND against.

AngelaH
 
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Dylith is offline Dylith Post #103  April 19,2010, 12:42am
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acelticsteve wrote :
There was a country that made atheism the state religion and took over many countries. There were people praying for it 24 hrs a day every day. People made up list and people signed up for a time slot of 15 minutes each. This country threw Christens in jail, gave them life sentences, in that country life sentence that means, in that country they gave them 15 years to starve and freeze them, they were sent to Siberia where temperature reach -80.


I'm not understanding why you are bringing up the Soviet Union. Treating Atheism like religion or as if it carries with it an overarching set of moral beliefs/principles seems rather silly as it is simply a lack of a belief in a diety/godhead (by and large).

wrote :
Today that empire is no more. So don't tell me that God don't exist.


So your supporting evidence that God exists is that the Soviet Union no longer exists?

wrote :
Before 1970 we never had the shootings in schools, or anywhere else for that matter.


Correlation is not causation, if you have any sort of hard evidence linking atheism to increased violence levels feel free to direct me to it.
 
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Paolung is offline Paolung Post #104  July 5,2010, 7:57am
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Calling atheism a belief or religion is like calling bald a hair color or saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Not believing in the cookie monster isn't a belief or religion or a matter of "faith."

Regarding the above poster's comment on atoms: not a good analogy. Atoms have plenty of real, concrete evidence that can be experimentally verified and duplicated. Scientific theories exist that have very good success rates at predicting atomic behavior, and so, until shown otherwise, the experimental data fits the hypothesis. The concept of a god or supreme being doesn't fit these criteria. Indeed, the data does NOT fit the god hypothesis, at best.
 
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Logomachy is offline Logomachy Post #105  July 5,2010, 5:30pm

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We are all atheists in terms of someone's god or gods. Science does not expect anyone to accept anything without evidence. Religion does. There is no evidence of any kind that proves there is a god of any kind in or outside of the universe. In the absence of this evidence many intelligent people have opted to not believe in god or gods. Those wishing to change their mind will need to first tell us what is god and what evidence they have that this god is real or exists. They won't do this by trying to tear down science especially when their posts reveal they know little or nothing about science.
 
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niftypastfifty is offline niftypastfifty Post #106  July 6,2010, 8:58pm
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BELIEVES THE BIBLE!! REALLY ALL OF IT!! AS IT IS! HONESTLY THE WHOLE THING!

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First off, I must admit that I have NOT taken the time to read ALL of the posts in this thread... (nor will I be doing so)... but I'd just like to offer 2 points of (my view)... whether anyone does or does not admit or actually even believe it, the simple fact is that Atheism is absolutely a RELIGION just as every other widely espoused and defended and practiced "set of tenents" is! The blatant truth is the atheists BELIEVE "what they believe" (in NO God) just as adamantly and religiously as Christians and/or Muslims and/or Jews and/or Hindus and/or (ANY religion) "believes and espouses" what ever tenents they believe! As for the original general opinions of atheism subject... it is my opinion, anyone who "believes" does so because in FACT it has been absolutely (scientifically) without a doubt PROVEN TO THEIR OWN PERSONAL HEART & SPIRIT. For example, in my own case, I KNOW that God exists because of the MIRACLES that He has exhibited within my very own day to day existence (including medically and documented healing of my stage 3 Chronic Kidney disease, an impossibility by your human scientific standards and means, but never the less, I have the healed Kidneys and the actual diagnostic documentations to PROVE it happened, and I choose to believe it was due to GOD!!) That said, to spite my having this extremely rare and remarkable evidence and proof of GOD, I can NOT manage to "provide it to anyone else" atheists or others! Thus, BELIEF in God is simply a matter of the individual human heart!
 
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ANDR3W is offline ANDR3W Post #107  July 7,2010, 7:16am
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YouTube - ATHEIST!!!!!!!

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in the supernatural (ie Gods, fairies, ghosts, vampires, angels, demons, leprechauns, gremlins etc) Athiesm is not a religion! If not believing in God is a religion, then not believing in the tooth fairy must also be a religion (Im a tooth fairy atheist too btw) The bottom line is this: If you know what its like to not believe in leprechauns then you know whats its like to be an atheist. Its not just the Christian God that I lack a belief in, I don't believe in any of the Gods. Man created the Gods not the other way around. God is a concept that exists only in the minds of human beings.
 
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mary_mary is offline mary_mary Post #108  July 10,2010, 2:36pm

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Paolung wrote :
Calling atheism a belief or religion is like calling bald a hair color or saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Not believing in the cookie monster isn't a belief or religion or a matter of "faith."

Regarding the above poster's comment on atoms: not a good analogy. Atoms have plenty of real, concrete evidence that can be experimentally verified and duplicated. Scientific theories exist that have very good success rates at predicting atomic behavior, and so, until shown otherwise, the experimental data fits the hypothesis. The concept of a god or supreme being doesn't fit these criteria. Indeed, the data does NOT fit the god hypothesis, at best.
Oh, you saved me so much typing! Allow me to be a dittohead.

An atheist does not believe that a supernatural being exists. That is not a belief system, or a system of tenets (the poster more immediately above notwithstanding). The fact that someone believes in something does not make someone else's non-belief in it a belief system.

If someone claims to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of their garden, and I decline to believe that, I have not become an adherent of some belief system relating to faeries. (Edit -- dang, I hadn't noticed that ANDR3W got there before me. )

We are referred to as atheists only because a bunch of other people decided to be theists. If that weren't the case, we'd all just be. In fact, we'd all be atheists, because we wouldn't believe in supernatural beings, but there'd be no need to have a label because there would be nothing we needed to be distinguished from.

An atheist does not believe. An agnostic does not know.

Atheists who have reflected will generally assert that they are agnostic and atheist. (For all we know, there really is a sky being pulling our strings. How would we know if it doesn't show itself?)

Religious people will admit the same: they are theists, but also agnostics. They don't know either.

It's a useful bit of common ground to keep in mind.

The beliefs of religious people are beliefs, not knowledge. People who don't share their beliefs simply don't share their beliefs. It ain't that big a deal ... until the believers make it one.
 
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chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #109  July 10,2010, 5:31pm
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mary_mary wrote :
Oh, you saved me so much typing! Allow me to be a dittohead.

An atheist does not believe that a supernatural being exists. That is not a belief system, or a system of tenets (the poster more immediately above notwithstanding). The fact that someone believes in something does not make someone else's non-belief in it a belief system.

If someone claims to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of their garden, and I decline to believe that, I have not become an adherent of some belief system relating to faeries. (Edit -- dang, I hadn't noticed that ANDR3W got there before me. )

We are referred to as atheists only because a bunch of other people decided to be theists. If that weren't the case, we'd all just be. In fact, we'd all be atheists, because we wouldn't believe in supernatural beings, but there'd be no need to have a label because there would be nothing we needed to be distinguished from.

An atheist does not believe. An agnostic does not know.

Atheists who have reflected will generally assert that they are agnostic and atheist. (For all we know, there really is a sky being pulling our strings. How would we know if it doesn't show itself?)

Religious people will admit the same: they are theists, but also agnostics. They don't know either.

It's a useful bit of common ground to keep in mind.

The beliefs of religious people are beliefs, not knowledge. People who don't share their beliefs simply don't share their beliefs. It ain't that big a deal ...
I was nodding my head in complete agreement...

mary_mary wrote :
... until the believers make it one.
...until that part.

Unfortunately, there are people on BOTH sides that have an issue with others' beliefs or lack thereof. It's not just a bunch of Bible thumpers trying to force religion on the world. It works both ways.
 
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Wootz is offline Wootz Post #110  July 10,2010, 6:28pm
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chawks64 wrote :
I was nodding my head in complete agreement...



...until that part.

Unfortunately, there are people on BOTH sides that have an issue with others' beliefs or lack thereof. It's not just a bunch of Bible thumpers trying to force religion on the world. It works both ways.
Agreed, Miss Chawks.

Bad behavior is bad behavior- no matter how it is dressed, where it is present, who is doing it, or to whom it is done. A belief system (or lack thereof) is founded on stuff inside our own heads. Thoughts, emotions, hunches, and, yes, *faith.* I cannot know what another's belief is like without being them. And vice versa.

Therefore, I can't judge anyone based on their faith or belief alone. It makes no sense to me to do so. How do I know what "relationship to God" means to someone? How does anyone else know what "free thinking" means to me? All we can do is judge people by their words and their actions. That is all.

I'll speak to anyone who is willing to listen about what it is I believe, and what I do not. That is simply the common courtesy I was taught and raised to provide. I will not attack or belittle anyone else's personal faith, or lack thereof. Were I to do so, that would show a deficiency of character in me that would bring me shame.

Through the long years of history, wars have been fought and men have died by the bloody thousands over conflicts of belief. We do not need an echo of that here. When someone attacks my personal way of life, I try to respond as intelligently as I can. Lashing out in counter-attack serves less well than a quiet word (or twenty- I do tend to write a lot *grin*).

Though the only person I can change is myself (and the same is true for each and every one of you here), if I *could* change but one small thing, it would be for you all to realize that. Each person has the greatest power over only one thing in the world- himself. No one can change your beliefs but you. No one is responsible for the actions I take but me.

Folks, if we cannot argue without becoming unreasonably angry, let us take time away from here until we can. I have the greatest respect for those who can make their points calmly and peacefully- whether I agree with them or not. The only vision we have of other people here is the words they use, so let us use our words wisely. Be patient, be kind, be understanding. Every human being deserves at least that small chance.

I am an atheist.

My opinions on this are simple: I do not believe in any omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, super-potent, angelic, demonic, or otherwise greater-than-conventionally-real being or thing.

Anything beyond that belongs in the realm of my personal philosophy, which is related to this, but it is not a part of my lack of religious faith.

My thoughts and opinions are subject to change, based upon what I learn and choose to believe. The above defines the limits of my belief today. Tomorrow may change things, maybe a lot, maybe a little, maybe even not at all. I am not perfect. But I have reasons for the things that I believe which make sense to me. I suspect all of you are much the same. *grin*

That is enough for me.
 
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