Why Religions (all of them) were created


Reply
 
Topic Tools Search this Thread
BlueEyedLizzie is offline BlueEyedLizzie Post #11  October 18,2008, 9:43am
BlueEyedLizzi…'s Avatar

Veteran

Joined: Sep 2008

Posts: 1,040

See profile



I don't think it's necessarily a fear of death so much as it is a fear of the unknown in general.
 
  Reply With Quote
BuzWeaver is offline BuzWeaver Post #12  October 19,2008, 7:26pm
BuzWeaver's Avatar

Researching the cure for liberalism

Veteran

Joined: Mar 2008

Atlanta

Posts: 1,412

See profile



eligions are a belief system, how they tie into medicine is purely speculative. Any belief system has to have logical consistency, empirical adequacy and experiential relevance. The Judeo-Christian belief system is exclusive because it follows not only this level of coherence and continuity, but specifically addresses origin, condition, salvation and destiny. We know what life is like after death because we have the person of Jesus Christ. All these concepts make the Judeo-Christian belief system complete.

The Hindu Upanishad states nothingness is where life comes from, this is an incomplete system. Even Gautama Buddha used terms like heaven and hell even though in classical Buddhism it’s none-theistic and atheistic. What this proves for all of us is a struggle to find person hood, a struggle to find relationships, a struggle to explain what is good and what is evil, as well as finding meaning.

Ask any Muslim and they will tell you that the Qur’an is word for word perfect (in only one language). The Muslim will say it’s a perfect revelation of Allah in the eye of a Muslim. They will affirm that again and again. That’s why no translation of the Qur’an will do justice in their estimation of the Qur’an, it is the perfect expression of Allah himself as dictated to Muhammad who recited it. Out side of Allah there is nothing else, this does not account for origin, condition, salvation and destiny consistently or coherently.

As far as science is concerned there isn't a reputable scientist in the professional field or in academics that has definitively or quantifiably defined origin. What science has discovered or will discover would have already existed. So unless science can transcend time they can't definitively define or account for origin.

The essence of the scientific method (empiricism, the acquisition of knowledge through the experiences of our senses). Science, then, does not begin with what is definitely known. Instead, it allows evidence, which must be interpreted, to lead the inquirer where it will.

Our scientific laws are simply the result of observed uniformities. If I let go of my car keys, they fall to the ground. This happens each time I drop them; so we theorize and construct the Law of Gravity. Although we accept this as a fact, it is not proved as such. Instead, we have reached a conclusion (or proposed a theory) by induction, not deduction. Induction is a philosophical term given to the process of using evidence to reach a wider conclusion: The evidence infers that your conclusion is the best explanation.

Logic demands that only deductive knowledge is strictly provable. To deduce something we must start with a truth definitely known and then by the logical process of inference arrive at certain facts that bring us to a conclusion.


C.S. Lewis mentions about ethics, when a ship goes out to the high seas there are three questions it must answer, number one, why is it out there in the first place, number two how to keep from sinking and number three, how to keep from bumping into other ships.


The first questions answers essential ethics (why are we out here), the second answers individual ethics (how to keep from self destruction) and the third one answers social ethics (how to keep from bumping into one another).



Unless you really know why you’re out there in the first place keeping from bumping into one another is merely a secondary notion.





Objective moral values exist only if God exist. Objective moral values do exist therefore God exist. The Naturalist can say I don’t have to accept that, but out side of God they aren’t able to anchor objective moral values, yet intuitively they know that some objective moral values can be so certain within their own mind. Yet, they are unable to anchor it, they then move away from it to try and come out with some other explanations, maybe a subjective notion of this.

When Ravi Zacharias was at the University Nottingham, a student said, there is too much evil in this world there cannot be a God. Ravi said to him, but sir, when you say there is such a thing as evil aren’t you assuming there is such a thing as good? Yes, said the student. Then Ravi said, when you say there is such a thing as good, aren’t you assuming there is a moral law and the basis from which to differentiate between good and evil?

The student struggled for a while and said, I will grant you that. Ravi continued by saying, when you say there is such a thing as a moral law aren’t you in some way assuming there is a moral law giver, because if there is no moral law giver there is no moral law, if there is not moral law there is no absolute good, if there is no good there is no evil what is your question, because you are trying to disprove the moral law giver.

The student stood stun for a minute and said what then am I asking you?
 
  Reply With Quote
jamesp81 is offline jamesp81 Post #13  October 19,2008, 7:58pm
jamesp81's Avatar

Veteran

Joined: Jun 2008

Posts: 1,398

See profile



"What do other people think?"


I think it'd be a good idea if you put on your asbestos suit
 
  Reply With Quote
zana is offline zana Post #14  October 19,2008, 10:00pm
zana's Avatar

-- it's hot in here --

Veteran

Joined: Sep 2008

Australia

Posts: 1,043

See profile

jamesp81,300757 wrote :

"What do other people think?"


I think it'd be a good idea if you put on your asbestos suit
LOL!!! hahaha


I know that people have different opinions and that's perfectly fine. Just the personal attacks are not.


So go ahead James, I know you're dying to tell me/us what you think
 
  Reply With Quote
abnoba is offline abnoba Post #15  October 20,2008, 4:28pm

I just found out my gramma died. I feel so very sad. I will miss her a lot.

Unregistered

Joined: Sep 2008

North America

Posts: 1,168

See profile

BuzWeaver,300714 wrote :






The student stood stun for a minute and said what then am I asking you?
You would be a lot more interesting to debate with if you took the time to avoid the following: overly long posts, filled with too many generalities and way too few specifics. Please avoid cliched cut and paste arguments from one of hundreds of fundamentalist net sites. Stick to the question and don't ramble on about what you see as the weaknesses of science. Do this for a start and who knows we may get to enjoy an intelligent debate.


The question (admittedly an unfair and loaded question) is why religions (all of them) were created?


Are you responding that in your opinion god, your god started religions. If so, we may have room for some intelligent chatter. No, no one is going to go away convinced or overwhelmed and no one is likely to drop their world view. But at least it would be an exercise in intelligent discussion.


None of us are really much interested in sermons.
 
  Reply With Quote
BillLvsGolf is offline BillLvsGolf Post #16  October 20,2008, 5:09pm
BillLvsGolf's Avatar

Has found what he has been looking for!!

Pacesetter

Joined: Aug 2008

NW Indiana

Posts: 233

See profile



Now this is an interesting thread. There are some great points being debated. Some of the things below have been stated.... some haven't.


I believe that all organized religion is exclusive. Either you are with us or you're not.


Religion was evolved to keep man under some sort of control.


It was also evolved to help overcome fear of death and fear in general.


Someone told me just the other night that people guide their lives based on their fears. I hadn't thought about it like that, but it kind of makes sense.


One of the books that really opened my eyes to religion, about 30 years ago, was "The Source" by James Michner. Great book. Changed my thinking.
 
  Reply With Quote
whysoserious is offline whysoserious Post #17  October 20,2008, 5:42pm
whysoserious's Avatar

Enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2008

Irving, Texas

Posts: 769

See profile

BuzWeaver,300714 wrote :

Objective moral values exist only if God exist. Objective moral values do exist therefore God exist. The Naturalist can say I don’t have to accept that, but out side of God they aren’t able to anchor objective moral values, yet intuitively they know that some objective moral values can be so certain within their own mind. Yet, they are unable to anchor it, they then move away from it to try and come out with some other explanations, maybe a subjective notion of this.

When Ravi Zacharias was at the University Nottingham, a student said, there is too much evil in this world there cannot be a God. Ravi said to him, but sir, when you say there is such a thing as evil aren’t you assuming there is such a thing as good? Yes, said the student. Then Ravi said, when you say there is such a thing as good, aren’t you assuming there is a moral law and the basis from which to differentiate between good and evil?

The student struggled for a while and said, I will grant you that. Ravi continued by saying, when you say there is such a thing as a moral law aren’t you in some way assuming there is a moral law giver, because if there is no moral law giver there is no moral law, if there is not moral law there is no absolute good, if there is no good there is no evil what is your question, because you are trying to disprove the moral law giver.

The student stood stun for a minute and said what then am I asking you?
Objective moral values exist only if God exist. Objective moral values do exist therefore God exist.


That is some of the worst logic I have witnessed in quite sometime.


When Ravi Zacharias was at the University Nottingham, a student said, there is too much evil in this world there cannot be a God. Ravi said to him, but sir, when you say there is such a thing as evil aren’t you assuming there is such a thing as good? Yes, said the student. Then Ravi said, when you say there is such a thing as good, aren’t you assuming there is a moral law and the basis from which to differentiate between good and evil?

The student struggled for a while and said, I will grant you that. Ravi continued by saying, when you say there is such a thing as a moral law aren’t you in some way assuming there is a moral law giver, because if there is no moral law giver there is no moral law, if there is not moral law there is no absolute good, if there is no good there is no evil what is your question, because you are trying to disprove the moral law giver.

The student stood stun for a minute and said what then am I asking you?


There is no absolute good or absolute evil. The worst attrocites are commited by those who believe they are truly doing good things. Most other "evil" is committed out of greed, hunger for power, addiction or mental disease. Things that are justified in the minds of those that perpetrate them. How many people do you know of that have committed evil acts and truly thought that they were doing something that wasn't justified?


Good and evil, right and wrong are determined by who ever wins the war/election/economic struggle.


There are no absolutes. There is no black and white, the world is all colors and greys.
 
  Reply With Quote
Tantalus is offline Tantalus Post #18  October 20,2008, 6:53pm
Tantalus's Avatar

is apparently a narcotic to some people

Veteran

Joined: May 2008

South Carolina

Posts: 1,455

See profile



Aw rats, I came here to contribute to the discussion and all of my points have already been adequately covered....
 
  Reply With Quote
abnoba is offline abnoba Post #19  October 20,2008, 7:29pm

I just found out my gramma died. I feel so very sad. I will miss her a lot.

Unregistered

Joined: Sep 2008

North America

Posts: 1,168

See profile

Tantalus,301726 wrote :

Aw rats, I came here to contribute to the discussion and all of my points have already been adequately covered... .
Aw, com'on. I bet you could think of one new way to repeat one or more of the arguments raised here so far, either in favor of some local god starting it all or or for some other force of your own choosing.
 
  Reply With Quote
abnoba is offline abnoba Post #20  October 20,2008, 7:33pm

I just found out my gramma died. I feel so very sad. I will miss her a lot.

Unregistered

Joined: Sep 2008

North America

Posts: 1,168

See profile



If we knew for certain that science made us immortal all the churches, temples, covens, shrines, would begin to empty and soon would be the home of spiders, cobwebs, mice, rats and the homeless druggies and drunks looking for a sort of dry place for the night.


Fear of death is the mother of all religions. Without the pretense that a small group of men and women control immortality religous institutions would die.


As soon as we get over our fear of not being one day the sooner religion will wither away along with all of man's former supertitions.
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply


« What does it mean to be Spiritual but not religious? | Religion & Spirituality | Adam and Eve: A story, parable, or historical fact? »
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“ Excellent, thank you. I think I will leave out the first part, I think it is unnecessary information to give him. I'm not interested in putting myself out there like that and it might be a little ... ” –  generallyyou

Join the “Ending a friendship” discussion

“Alfred Hitchcock - 18 Steven Spielberg - 62 *notice what?” –  dmi

Join the “War of the Directors” discussion

“ I would be "certain people" :P The issue isn't a deal-breaker, but a very strong factor preference-wise, for me.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “How much does race play in your dating someone?” discussion

“Love Texas Hold'em!.. I'm thinking of trying another tournament this summer...not sure yet though.. Never entered a tournament before, outside of online ones. Personally I prefer to play with ... ” –  Freezepop

Join the “Favorite Card Game” discussion

“Make that 3! I also had a crush on Donny Osmond. I think I still have a record or two of his. Suzie ” –  legend29

Join the “Robin Gibbs Dead at 62...How Deep is Your Love?” discussion

“Oh, my revised profile can be seen in the forum in the section where you can ask for a profile review. Suzanne” –  SuzanneScorpio

Join the “Photo Review” discussion

“Just remember, everything that you are feeling and/or are capable of he is as well. If he wanted to reach you, he could. Right now he knows that you are hurting, and that this is not what you ... ” –  lynntlb78

Join the “Can I wait and move on at the same time?” discussion

“ Yohio. And the shortened form (Anya) is nice too.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “Where is Becky?!?” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:25am.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0