waltercl is offline waltercl Post #1  August 29,2010, 10:25pm
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The hope of many including myself was that even if we didn't like Obama or his policies that his election would help usher in a post-racial era. It has not, and in fact there is significant danger that it is going to set back the cause of African Americans rather than propel it forward. Why? Because of all the charges of racism every time any of his policies are opposed.

There has been a groundswell of grass roots opposition that has manifested in different ways with the most visible being the Tea Party Movement. Most of the these people were outraged at all the big spending of Republicans and really started to get angry (and organized) after the TARP program and bailouts proposed under Bush. The movement gained a lot of momentum after the Obama Stimulus Bill and HealthCare bill, but its opposition is based on policies and not personalities and especially not race.

Every time someone (such as NAACP) pulls out the race card they do African Americans harm. It's saying to people that African Americans cannot be held to the same standards as a white politician. Without realizing it they are facilitating the idea of inferiority based on race. This is really sad and really unfair to all of those African Americans who do believe they can and should be held to the same standards as any politician of any color.

For the next 20 years after Dems take a beating over the next few cycles and Obama loses I fear we will hear over and over again that they lost because Americans had not overcome their prejudices and were not truly ready for an African American President. They cannot and will not allow themselves to see the truth that Americans will not be voting against skin color but against policies.
 
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chimerical is offline chimerical Post #2  August 29,2010, 10:58pm
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Have you read the article, "What Kind of Card is Race?" by Tim Wise? I'll post a few things that I think are relevant, as they relate to racism in general. Before I go into that, though, let me say: I can't believe that anyone who has ever studied racism truly believed that Obama's election would be the beginning of a "post-racial" society. I certainly did not. Nor would Hillary's election have moved us past discrimination against women. Society just doesn't work like that. But, anyway...

From "What Kind of Card is Race?":

...That bringing up racism (even with copious documentation) is far from an effective "card" to play in order to garner sympathy, is evidenced by the way in which few people even become aware of the studies confirming its existence. How many Americans do you figure have even heard, for example, that black youth arrested for drug possession for the first time are incarcerated at a rate that is forty-eight times greater than the rate for white youth, even when all other factors surrounding the crime are identical (4)?

How many have heard that persons with "white sounding names," according to a massive national study, are fifty percent more likely to be called back for a job interview than those with "black sounding" names, even when all other credentials are the same (5)?

How many know that white men with a criminal record are slightly more likely to be called back for a job interview than black men without one, even when the men are equally qualified, and present themselves to potential employers in an identical fashion (6)?

How many have heard that according to the Justice Department, Black and Latino males are three times more likely than white males to have their vehicles stopped and searched by police, even though white males are over four times more likely to have illegal contraband in our cars on the occasions when we are searched (7)?

...Precisely because white denial has long trumped claims of racism, people of color tend to underreport their experiences with racial bias, rather than exaggerate them. Again, when it comes to playing a race card, it is more accurate to say that whites are the dealers with the loaded decks, shooting down any evidence of racism as little more than the fantasies of unhinged blacks.

...Occasionally, white denial gets creative, and this it does by pretending to come wrapped in sympathy for those who allege racism in the modern era. In other words, while steadfastly rejecting what people of color say they experience--in effect suggesting that they lack the intelligence and/or sanity to accurately interpret their own lives--such commentators seek to assure others that whites really do care about racism, but simply refuse to pin the label on incidents where it doesn't apply. In fact, they'll argue, one of the reasons that whites have developed compassion fatigue on this issue is precisely because of the overuse of the concept, combined with what we view as unfair reactions to racism (such as affirmative action efforts which have, ostensibly, turned us into the victims of racial bias). If blacks would just stop playing the card where it doesn't belong, and stop pushing for so-called preferential treatment, whites would revert back to our prior commitment to equal opportunity, and our heartfelt concern about the issue of racism.

...[However,] whites in every generation have thought there was no real problem with racism, irrespective of the evidence, and in every generation we have been wrong.

...For example, what does it say about white rationality and white collective sanity, that in 1963--at a time when in retrospect all would agree racism was rampant in the United States, and before the passage of modern civil rights legislation--nearly two-thirds of whites, when polled, said they believed blacks were treated the same as whites in their communities--almost the same number as say this now, some forty-plus years later? What does it suggest about the extent of white folks' disconnection from the real world, that in 1962, eighty-five percent of whites said black children had just as good a chance as white children to get a good education in their communities (12)? Or that in May, 1968, seventy percent of whites said that blacks were treated the same as whites in their communities, while only seventeen percent said blacks were treated "not very well" and only 3.5 percent said blacks were treated badly? (13)?

[End Quote]

From psychology, we know that it is natural to have an "in-group" preference. We see the world as "us vs. them," and we see "us" as a collection of unique individuals, while we see "them" as a faceless mass with not many differences between them. It's a psychological shortcut that, evolutionarily speaking, helped us quickly identify enemies. Today, it promotes everything from racism and discrimination against other religions to, heck, probably high school football rivalries.

Face it, racism isn't going anywhere. We can be aware of it and act to mitigate it, but we're not destroying it or becoming "post-racial" any time soon... No matter what Obama does or doesn't do.

ZCommunications | What Kind of Card is Race? by Tim Wise | ZNet Article
 
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waltercl is offline waltercl Post #3  August 29,2010, 11:26pm
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I have absolutely no problem admitting that we still have a long way to go in overcoming racism and prejudice in America. The problem is when you play the "race card" for things in which it doesn't apply you in effect "cry wolf" and dilute awareness to the problem.

It is very difficult for a progressive liberal to get elected President because maybe only 15% of the voting electorate is progressively liberal. The two Democrats that had previously been elected were both moderate Southern Governors. Obama came along during a perfect storm where a majority of Americans were completely fed up with Bush and Republicans, and the Republican base was demoralized due to things like TARP. Even then it still would have been tough for a white progressive liberal to get elected. Obama's race was a positive factor which added to this already anti-Repub wave by energizing minorities to come out and vote in record numbers, and Independents were ready to give him a chance based on his post-racial rhetoric. Most people of all colors want to get beyond race.

There is also no doubt that Obama's race greatly helped him in the Democratic primary. I sincerely believe no white man could have beat Hillary. So to now portray opposition to Obama as racist and start to blame possible defeats on racism is way off the mark.

I know that African Americans have a shared set of experience that most whites such as myself do not and will not ever have. We do not know what it is likely to be looked down on simply because of the color of our skin, and we do not know what it is like to be denied certain opportunities due to prejudice, and we do not know a whole lot of other experiences that are unique to a minority community. However....there is one set of shared experiences that a lot of whites do have. They have experienced the race card being played in very inappropriate times and ways. They've seen themselves and others accused of racism when it did not apply.

If you want to move into a post-racial area then we have to move into a time where both sides drop their prejudices and address their suspicions and pre-conceived ideas of the other.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #4  August 30,2010, 12:05am
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chimerical wrote :
It's a psychological shortcut that, evolutionarily speaking, helped us quickly identify enemies
By this thought process everyone, including minorities, are racist. You are either a racist or in denial of being a racist. A sexist or in denial of being a sexist. Only a society that has one race and gender and are completely unaware of other races and genders in the world would have racial and gender equality.
 
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chimerical is offline chimerical Post #5  August 30,2010, 12:27am
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dwreese182 wrote :
By this thought process everyone, including minorities, are racist. You are either a racist or in denial of being a racist. A sexist or in denial of being a sexist. Only a society that has one race and gender and are completely unaware of other races and genders in the world would have racial and gender equality.
Um, yes? Did you want to assert some kind of problem with this theory, or were you just seeking clarification?

Everyone is racist to some extent. Everyone is sexist. Everyone--including minorities and women--has bias.

They've done plenty of studies (blind & double-blind) in addition to sociological observations. I don't remember the exact statistics, but I do remember some of the specific biases. For example, people were more likely, when given a quick glimpse of a black man holding something, to think it was a gun than a cell phone. They were more likely, in a white man's hand, to think it was a cell. And I'm pretty sure it didn't change whether the person being tested was white or black, male or female--they all held the bias.

And, on a more personal note, as a woman, I'm well aware of some of my biases against women, and I've even admitted to one of them recently, on these boards. (If you're curious to read it, it's in the "no drama" thread on the Dating boards.)

So, yes. Everyone is prejudiced. It's a well-documented phenomenon.

...But I guess, most people being in denial, it makes sense that people would say, "Hey, minorities and women are always saying we're prejudiced! They must be overreacting! I sure don't feel prejudiced!"
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #6  August 30,2010, 12:53am
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chimerical wrote :
Um, yes? Did you want to assert some kind of problem with this theory, or were you just seeking clarification?
It was for clarification. So the majority should not feel so bad about being racist, since if the minority were able to switch them places, they would be just as racist towards the new minority. lol
 
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WYskywatcher is offline WYskywatcher Post #7  August 30,2010, 8:20am
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Growing up in the South...When I was in 3rd grade, I distinctly remember having this thought about my Black classmate and friend, Michelle, ....

I remember recognizing that her skin color alone gave her a disadvantage. I remember thinking, wow, I could have just as easily been born with dark skin. She can't help the color of her skin, yet she is treated worse because of it. Her life is harder because of it. That doesn't seem right.

My point-- At a very young age I had already picked up on the idea that my "white" skin gave me an advantage over "dark" skin. This wasn't something that I had ever heard vocalized by my parents or any other influential adult. It just was, and the thought of it made me sad.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #8  August 30,2010, 9:47am
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I think that you take it as a blanket statement somehow. That is your perception.

To me, it is highly obvious that blatant racists would be outraged at things such as welfare, unemployment benefits, illegal aliens, and/or an Islamic Community Center near ground zero. Many of these individuals would be driven to voice that outrage in the media & in public. They are among every group in the nation (even the Tea Party) & in large numbers.

Do you actually think that they'd be quiet about those things? They are a part of what makes your upswell that you see so large. There would still be protesting going on but that puts it over the top.

Just a side note: I would love to see the results of an honest poll taken of Tea Party members as to the extent of their anger if their daughter selected a black man to marry.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #9  August 30,2010, 1:03pm
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bigfincat wrote :
I think that you take it as a blanket statement somehow. That is your perception.

To me, it is highly obvious that blatant racists would be outraged at things such as welfare, unemployment benefits, illegal aliens, and/or an Islamic Community Center near ground zero. Many of these individuals would be driven to voice that outrage in the media & in public. They are among every group in the nation (even the Tea Party) & in large numbers.
Wait a second ... So, because I am outraged and disgusted with things such as unemployment benefits, welfare and illegal aliens then I am a blatant racist?

Or is it that some who are outraged at such things are blatant racists, while the rest are closet cases or merely just outraged?

I'll give you a line item response ...

Unemployment benefits ... I am in a family run business, we don't do lay offs willy-nilly ... Paying for unemployment benefits for 2 years is a major expense (increase in cost for the business) ...

Welfare ... Abolish it ... I'd love to send all the tax money going to such programs from my paycheck to a local charity that performs a similar task ...

Illegal aliens ... Not so much outraged ... Moreso that hospitals/ER et al should be able to require payment for services or proof of insurance before admittance ... You can't go to Taco Bell, order a burritto, eat it and say just bill me ...
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #10  August 30,2010, 1:06pm
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Rand_011 wrote :
Wait a second ... So, because I am outraged and disgusted with things such as unemployment benefits, welfare and illegal aliens then I am a blatant racist?

Or is it that some who are outraged at such things are blatant racists, while the rest are closet cases or merely just outraged?

I'll give you a line item response ...

Unemployment benefits ... I am in a family run business, we don't do lay offs willy-nilly ... Paying for unemployment benefits for 2 years is a major expense (increase in cost for the business) ...

Welfare ... Abolish it ... I'd love to send all the tax money going to such programs from my paycheck to a local charity that performs a similar task ...

Illegal aliens ... Not so much outraged ... Moreso that hospitals/ER et al should be able to require payment for services or proof of insurance before admittance ... You can't go to Taco Bell, order a burritto, eat it and say just bill me ...
No. They are among you however. Some of those people that are outraged are in fact raging racists.

Do you think that there are only a few?? I think that there are many thousands.
 
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