Rules, roles, & codes to live by


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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #1  July 21,2010, 2:15pm
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It appears that there may be a large difference in the thought process between some right-leaning individuals & some that are left-leaning when it comes to these.

Conservatives that get heavily involved in religion tend to follow the strict rules that their sect prescribes.

Traditional roles in relationships also have a prescription for life.

Even the military has a very strict code to live by.

Is it necessary to have a common code to live by in order to live a good & focused life?

Left-leaning people tend to wish to write their own code & rules to live by.

Do such codes limit freedom in everyday lfe?
 
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mary_mary is offline mary_mary Post #2  July 21,2010, 2:29pm

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bigfincat wrote :
Left-leaning people tend to wish to write their own code & rules to live by.
Well, I lean so far left you probably can't see me. Yoo hoo! Over here!

Throw in "atheist" and "feminist" and we have a recipe for chaos, I guess.

I don't think my rules/code are much different from most people's, including right-wing religious fundamentalists'.

Things like "love thy neighbour as thyself" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" (which are common to most religions, of course).

The big difference would be that I actually try to live that way, rather than trying to control everybody else as right-wing religious fundamentalists do.
 
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lunabeach is offline lunabeach Post #3  July 21,2010, 2:39pm
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It's a cop out but it definitely depends on the individual. I bristle when someone tries to exert authority that I haven't recognized...one of my best friends, who is in the military, is one of the most dominant people I know - and will just accept direction from anyone who appears to have a position of authority (even if it's just the lady in charge of cleaning the bathroom's at McD's).

Is either one of us better or freer for our response? Only in the fact that we are able to interact socially the way we wish - I feel he allows himself to be taken advantage of, he feels I waste time with details rather than just acting. He would not enjoy having push limits and pursue answers the way I do at work, and I would not enjoy having to just follow the leader.

So, I feel generally free with my looser codes of conduct (i.e. not thinking in terms of authority/rank with the people I interact with) and his life is clearer b/c in every situation he just ranks people and either follows or leads. I think some codes are limiting and that most people will do the right thing if not the prescribed thing, he thinks they're essential for right and order in the world. It's kind of an extreme (and abstract) example, but that's all I got. Thanks for the mental exercise.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #4  July 21,2010, 2:41pm
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mary_mary wrote :
Well, I lean so far left you probably can't see me. Yoo hoo! Over here!

Throw in "atheist" and "feminist" and we have a recipe for chaos, I guess.

I don't think my rules/code are much different from most people's, including right-wing religious fundamentalists'.

Things like "love thy neighbour as thyself" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" (which are common to most religions, of course).

The big difference would be that I actually try to live that way, rather than trying to control everybody else as right-wing religious fundamentalists do.
I think that my overall rules are similar to most as well. You can't find them written in any particular place though.

It is a bit weird to me the manner in which many people have a need to identify with certain things or labels and such.

Examples that I hear would be identifying oneself as being from a particular state...The Great State of (blank)!
 
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Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #5  July 21,2010, 3:05pm

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I find both fringes to be scary and very dogmatic. You have one side shoving religion down your throat and the other lack of religion. One side personal responsibility/leave my stuff alone, the other take care of everyone regardless of the circumstances. I could go on but my point is once your opinion becomes polarized you no longer think for yourself.

And the fringes wonder why they aren't attracting the confidence of the independents. When you think for yourself you find both sides look nuts.

So far as rules or codes, I have none. Each situation must be looked at and the best course of action found. If you have rules, whether you made them up yourself or someone preached them to you, it taints your perception of the actual problem. Once the bias is entered you will not find the best solution, the best you can hope for is the best solution that conforms to your rules.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #6  July 21,2010, 3:23pm
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Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
I find both fringes to be scary and very dogmatic. You have one side shoving religion down your throat and the other lack of religion. One side personal responsibility/leave my stuff alone, the other take care of everyone regardless of the circumstances. I could go on but my point is once your opinion becomes polarized you no longer think for yourself.

And the fringes wonder why they aren't attracting the confidence of the independents. When you think for yourself you find both sides look nuts.

So far as rules or codes, I have none. Each situation must be looked at and the best course of action found. If you have rules, whether you made them up yourself or someone preached them to you, it taints your perception of the actual problem. Once the bias is entered you will not find the best solution, the best you can hope for is the best solution that conforms to your rules.
That is very true & it makes problem solving difficult.

When the fringes make mountains out of molehills it can take the focus off of real problems.

It actually is to the point where one fringe verbalises a nonsense issue simply because the other fringe has brought up similar nonsense issues in the past.

As a nation we certainly don't need the distractions.
Last edited by bigfincat; July 21,2010 at 3:26pm.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #7  July 21,2010, 3:29pm
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bigfincat wrote :
That is very true & it makes problem solving difficult.

When the fringes make mountains out of molehills it can take the focus off of real problems.

As a nation we certainly don't need the distractions.
The trouble arises though because we are a very diverse nation ... What one reasonable person sees as a molehill, another reasonable person sees as a mountain ...

I am thinking that even if we looked at just a city/neighborhood as a governing entity we would have a similar disparity, lol.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #8  July 21,2010, 3:30pm
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Oh, and I likely fall into some type of fringe group ... Where is the bucket for the Christian Libertarians?
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #9  July 21,2010, 3:47pm
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I am more interested in why we systematically allow for predetermined roles to guide us as a whole & how that relates to freedom & free individual thought.
 
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mary_mary is offline mary_mary Post #10  July 21,2010, 4:01pm

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Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
I find both fringes to be scary and very dogmatic. You have one side shoving religion down your throat and the other lack of religion.
I have yet to grasp this, although I've tried.

I can't think of any example of anyone spontaneously and unprompted or -provoked, shoving "lack of religion" down anyone's throat. Or trying to impose any rule derived from "lack of religion" on anyone, the way people with religion (i.e. some people with religion, saying "people" does not mean "all people") regularly seek to impose rules (allegedly) derived from their religion on others.

Is this something you experience regularly?

Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
One side personal responsibility/leave my stuff alone, the other take care of everyone regardless of the circumstances. I could go on but my point is once your opinion becomes polarized you no longer think for yourself.
Excuse me, but you do seem rather stuck on this idea of other people not thinking for themselves; you've thrown it at me before.

Nobody's opinion is "polarized"; that doesn't mean anything to me. It is only meaningful if you regard other people's opinions as being adopted and adhered to because of what category they fall into.

Yes, undoubtedly some people do adopt their opinions holus bolus from some set of opinions belonging to some group they've decided to join or remain in.

But the fact that someone's opinions are "out there" in relation to some particular conjuncture doesn't mean they're "polarized". I didn't look way over to the left and say "yeah man, I want me some of that, that's where I want to be, and I hate all those other folks". That's "polarized", I would think.

My opinions (and values) exist independently of whatever anyone else thinks. Whether they are left, right or centre is entirely a matter of circumstance. Obama looks "left" in the US. In most of the rest of the world, he fits firmly on the right.

Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
And the fringes wonder why they aren't attracting the confidence of the independents. When you think for yourself you find both sides look nuts.
Well, I don't find any such thing, but once again, that is obviously because I don't think for myself. Right?

Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
So far as rules or codes, I have none. Each situation must be looked at and the best course of action found. If you have rules, whether you made them up yourself or someone preached them to you, it taints your perception of the actual problem. Once the bias is entered you will not find the best solution, the best you can hope for is the best solution that conforms to your rules.
Yeah, I generally do look for the solution that best fits with the rule of doing the decent thing from the perspective of other people, and not just what I happen to want to do at the time in my own interests.

Obviously, that is not the best solution, and I'm just a sheep.

I am on the left BECAUSE that position matches my values. I do not hold particular values (and try to act according to them) because I made some decision one drunken night to be on the left.

That really, really doesn't even make sense.
Last edited by mary_mary; July 21,2010 at 4:03pm. Reason: omitted word
 
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