Takes too much work to get the real story.


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zal is offline zal Post #11  July 13,2010, 2:59pm
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bigfincat wrote :
Of course you should have to produce that info to officials involved.

There is no way that any citizen that wishes to should be allowed to randomly question people entering the building.

No unofficial or uninvited people should be allowed to congregate very close to those types of events.

I have read nothing to contradict the story that those 2 gentleman were actually escorting voters into the building & preventing unofficial people from bothering them.

Do you think that news outlets tried to color the legal case by carrying it with an unrelated racial rant?
Not at all. The racial rant was relevant to the case, and the alleged perpetrator was accused of making similar rants as part of the alleged intimidation. Should the news organizations not air racist rants made by minorities? What would the response have been if the perpetrators were wearing sheets instead of fatigues and waiving bats at black voters? I see no difference.
 
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waltercl is offline waltercl Post #12  July 14,2010, 8:07pm
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Of course the racist rant was relevant. It was made by the same person carrying the baton in front of the polling place. It is outrageous that the main stream media is ignoring this story. My understanding is that the case had already been won against this one individual, and a permanent injunction had been imposed that he would not be allowed to stand outside of a polling place again. The Obama Justice Department lowered it to two years, and the two years only applies to Philadelphia.

Does anyone believe for one second that if this had been two people in klan outfits that this would not have been all over the news? CNN and MSNBC would have had it on 24/7. Can you imagine what they would have said of Bush if he had let a Klansmen off with just two years?

By employing a double-standard the media is ultimately hurting minorities. In the long-run it is minorities that need the protection of the voting rights act more than anyone. If you dilute the enforcement of the policy just because the offender happens to be black then you end up diluting the policy for all.
Last edited by waltercl; July 14,2010 at 8:15pm.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #13  July 15,2010, 3:08pm
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It is not relevant as to whether a crime was committed.

The Bush DOJ did not believe it to be criminal. They felt, if anything, that it was a civil issue.

What type of punishment usually occurs for minor civil cases??

The police did not arrest him at the time... because the "incident" was so minor that it did not warrant it.

Also, there is clearly a huge difference between wearing a klan outfit & wearing a Black Panther outfit.

That is clearly visible in the fact that Black Panther members wear those outfits in public frequently with no uproar whatsoever from people that witness it.

If someone wore a klan outfit in public... well they wouldn't make it one block without said uproar.

Clearly the outfits are not analogous in what they represent. They are likely viewed differently because of the vastly different history of murderous behavior.

I really do wonder how much punishment is appropriate for a dude that was asked to leave a place & immediately did...which is why he wasn't arrested at that time.

An "incident" that was resolved without incident usually does not result in much punishment.

And I am still hearing that they were standing as a wall to keep The Voter Fraud Citizen Brigade b00bs away from voters & that they said very, very little to actual voters.
 
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acelticsteve is offline acelticsteve Post #14  August 26,2010, 12:59pm

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bigfincat wrote :
The spin is so significant that I can't get the real story.

Just as an example:

Many outlets have stated that voter intimidation took place.

Others have had the complainants stating that pollsters were being held off.... and voters were NOT.

I don't know what to think of that one.

Keeping pollsters away from voters would not be criminal in any way.

Pollsters were there to harass voters looking for identification.

If I am at a voting facility & an outsider tried to discern whether or not I was a valid voter I would laugh at them & would absolutely not show them proof of anything.

While I don't think that anyone (including pollsters) should be allowed to congregate outside of such an event, I don't think that the threshold of criminality was reached at this given time.

That should be illegal BUT we need to legislate against it.

Just as we should legislate that noone SHOULD be allowed to congregate within a certain vicinity of an abortion clinic we should legislate with some kind of footage law to keep people away.
May I ask you a couple of questions? First is it hard to get the truth or the story you want to hear? what are you in the Democratic Party? I was once a distric man in the Duval County Democratic Party. that is a pritty low office but at least i went to party meetings. Do you hold any office? I dont know if you do or you just a bull horn for the party. Every post that I have read of yours sounds like it came strait from the party. Let me point out that the President, any President is a poor substute for God and a political party is a poor substute for a religon.
I believe that any one hurrasing voters, threating voters, ect, ect. should be throwen in jail for at least a year.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #15  August 26,2010, 2:30pm
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acelticsteve wrote :
May I ask you a couple of questions? First is it hard to get the truth or the story you want to hear? what are you in the Democratic Party? I was once a distric man in the Duval County Democratic Party. that is a pritty low office but at least i went to party meetings. Do you hold any office? I dont know if you do or you just a bull horn for the party. Every post that I have read of yours sounds like it came strait from the party. Let me point out that the President, any President is a poor substute for God and a political party is a poor substute for a religon.
I believe that any one hurrasing voters, threating voters, ect, ect. should be throwen in jail for at least a year.
I don't play a party line at all.

I do feel that most "issues" are non-issues.

When the media blows something up it is, more often than not, nothing at all.

Fox News & conservative "opinion makers" do this considerably well.

I wish that I could personally decide the proper punishment for a lot of things.
 
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acelticsteve is offline acelticsteve Post #16  August 26,2010, 4:10pm

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I asked that becuse yo seeem to defend the democratic party line and the president contuially. so far as fox news I think you and a lot of other people do not understand how the system work. we the voters need to know both sides of the story it seem to me that say cbs tells one side and fox the other. we need facts not opions and they are hard to come by if you do not know where to look.
 
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meri75 is offline meri75 Post #17  September 5,2010, 1:52am
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bigfincat wrote :
Of course you should have to produce that info to officials involved.

There is no way that any citizen that wishes to should be allowed to randomly question people entering the building.

No unofficial or uninvited people should be allowed to congregate very close to those types of events.

I have read nothing to contradict the story that those 2 gentleman were actually escorting voters into the building & preventing unofficial people from bothering them.

Do you think that news outlets tried to color the legal case by carrying it with an unrelated racial rant?
I'm slightly confused here, but that may be because my knowledge and experience of politics really differs to yours.

When we go to vote, well, voting is compulsory here, so nobody questions whether or not you're a real voter.

The political members are not allowed to approach or try to sway any voter in how they should vote, nor which party (or candidate - depending whether Federal, State or Local Election) the voter will be backing.

Where I'm a bit confused ... the US is always touted here as being big on free speech. And rights to about everything. (I truly intend zero offense here - just not quite sure how to word my understanding). So, how would you successfully manage to not break any existing rights by preventing any person from asking others if they were a real voter or not? Wouldn't the freedom of speech right allow that .. at least if it was not harassment?

And in a very general sense, I don't really trust any news forum to relay the events in 100% accuracy. Whether they realise it or not, the individual's personal beliefs and emotions usually show up ... though I think this is more easily discernible if the newsperson has been in their job for some time and the public get to 'know' a little about them.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #18  September 5,2010, 9:14am
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meri75 wrote :
I'm slightly confused here, but that may be because my knowledge and experience of politics really differs to yours.

When we go to vote, well, voting is compulsory here, so nobody questions whether or not you're a real voter.

The political members are not allowed to approach or try to sway any voter in how they should vote, nor which party (or candidate - depending whether Federal, State or Local Election) the voter will be backing.

Where I'm a bit confused ... the US is always touted here as being big on free speech. And rights to about everything. (I truly intend zero offense here - just not quite sure how to word my understanding). So, how would you successfully manage to not break any existing rights by preventing any person from asking others if they were a real voter or not? Wouldn't the freedom of speech right allow that .. at least if it was not harassment?

And in a very general sense, I don't really trust any news forum to relay the events in 100% accuracy. Whether they realise it or not, the individual's personal beliefs and emotions usually show up ... though I think this is more easily discernible if the newsperson has been in their job for some time and the public get to 'know' a little about them.
While it is reprehensible to overreach your own boundaries, it is often legal to express ones ideas.

Someone may ask a person a question but that does NOT mean that they are entitled to an answer of that question.

That would be like me performing a traffic stop. I am not in an official capacity to do that. Am I harassing the driver?? I think so.

Freedom of speech does have a personal responsibility aspect that is often ignored.

The line of harassment is often leaped over.... as can obviously be seen in the case of people making comments anywhere near a clinic that deals with abortion & reproductive issues.
 
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