So - what do you think of the Arizona immigration bill?


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eHA_Admin_Lori is offline eHA_Admin_Lori — Advice Official Moderator Post #1  April 28,2010, 10:29am
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I'm surprised there isn't a thread on this.

I haven't read the bill in its entirety but my understanding is there are two main points:

-people (I assume everyone?) now need to carry proof of US citizenship with them at all times

-police are allowed to / encouraged to approach anyone who is "reasonably suspicious" as to their immigration status and request the aforementioned documentation


Is this a much-needed crackdown on illegal immigration or racial profiling / government subsidized racism?

What say you?
 
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vegaschick is offline vegaschick Post #2  April 28,2010, 11:06am
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It's not government subsidized racism, it's merely enforcing the laws that are on the books at the federal level. The illegal immigration issue is the pink elephant in the corner of the room.... it's there, it's huge, you can't avoid it, yet somehow, people continue to act as if it's not there. Put a lampshade on it's head, viole`! No more problem!
There can be a happy medium in handling this issue, but it isn't being dealt with. When I was living in Las Vegas, it was getting to the point that you HAD to speak Spanish as many of our patients didn't speak English/refused to speak English. Heaven forbid you get a valid picture ID from an adult too! That is getting to be way too prevalent all over the West.
Arizona isn't wrong in what they are doing as they are purely requiring that the laws on the book be enforced. Technically, an illegal immigrant has already broken the laws by being here. That in itself is a crime. You don't need more reasons to arrest and deport them. I don't care if the illegal immigrant is from Asia, South America, Africa, Europe, or whatever! You are not a citizen here, the Bill of Rights does not apply to you, your children should not be citizens purely because they were whelped on this side of the border with no parent having legal residency status, you do not have rights to education, healthcare, etc etc purely because you are here.
There are legal ways to live and work in the USA. Many people jump through all the hoops required, either to become citizens or get a work visa. Jumping the border to go to the front of the line should not be rewarded. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, you are now back at the end of the line and each illegal boarder crossing further impedes your chance of ever being here legally.
Yes, I realize I am going to be called racist for this. I am not racist. I am merely being pragmatic and requesting that the laws of the land be enforced. No more lampshade on the pink elephant.
 
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Gman60 is offline Gman60 Post #3  April 28,2010, 11:36am
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I am in total agreement with it. the costs associated with the illegal immigrant problem are breaking the backs of the taxpayers in Az. The border area looks like a garbage strewn war zone. I have no problem with immigration and I think we have provided an excellent way to become American citizens. The immigrants can be legal if they take the time and effort to do so. Plain and simple, they have nothing to fear if they are legal. Is that any different than any other law ?
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #4  April 28,2010, 1:04pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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I have mixed feelings about it. I live and work right next to the U.S./Mexico border and so this topic is relevant to where I live (though not in Arizona).

One thing that I see in the people in my area (both Hispanics and non-Hispanics) is many people who do not like aspects of border enforcement (e.g. 'the fence', the type of law recently passed in Arizona)..

While these people will argue policy using certain factual arguments.....the truth is their position is based on the fact that they would like Mexican friends and/or family to be able to get into the U.S. and/or become legal residents here.

I am very sympathetic to this and would like to see relatively large numbers of immigrants allowed in the U.S. I also think that a country has to enforce whatever immigration policy it has.

Many of the people I see who are favorable to getting people they know across the border into the U.S. are effectively arguing for an absence of any type of border enforcement. This just doesn't seem workable to me.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #5  April 28,2010, 1:26pm
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Easy solutions:

Make it easier to come to this country legally.

End freebies.

End prohibition on drugs.

The judge also has a valid argument:
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #6  April 28,2010, 1:48pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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Another issue related to the AZ law is drug related violence. From what I have seen and heard from those involved with border and drug enforcement there may be extreme violence coming to border states (if not within the interior of the US). There are such massive amounts of money involved in the drug trade that even mercenary forces from around the world are wanting their cut of it.

With the amount of money involved the fight against drug trafficking seems literally unwinable to me. Even if we succeeded in eliminating all those involved in this traffic....other people (perhaps better armed) would only take their places. The only thing I can think of that might really change this would be legalizing drugs, so as to drastically cut the amount of money that could be made on black market trafficking.
 
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chicgal is offline chicgal Post #7  April 28,2010, 4:07pm
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As a Hispanic, born and raised along the Texas border, the rest of the U.S. needs to understand this is an entirely different area proudly displaying the Mexican flag, honoring its history and speaking the language everyday within the American Border.
The fact remains, that many Mexicans willingly walk or drive across the bridge with no intentions of returning, using their legal passport as their ticket into the American system...and that includes the Welfare state. From education, health, government housing and the rest of the assistance they can register for. So much abuse that this is what makes Tax payers cringe at the reality that the government insist on not enforcing the laws.
I for one, attempted to report a large number of people using one my rental addresses to both the school district and government authorities.
I was told, that nothing could be done, legally children had the right to attend the schools, and when I tried to return a WIC & Texas Food card back to the office, I was treated as the criminal for doing so.
Once everything was cleared up, officials still said that these people would still remain on the system, off record, they preferred to keep them on the system as job security!
Liberals & Democrats must understand the abuse is a joke to them, no criminal action will be taken or penalties imposed.

When you have Mexican media (Univision) owned by American NBC extorting legal assistance with an Immigration Lawyer with a weekly show on how to resolve status issues...you know Law is longer to be followed.
There is just to many issues and examples of abuse and the costs that will arise again, if we continue to give amnesty.
My grandparents went thru the legal process just like those going through Ellis Island...so just because they can walk, drive or swim across the border...that should not be an automatic pass.
I listen and watch the Mexican media...which most of those who oppose this enforcement don't...if you only knew how the media reported such behavior...you would understand who had the upper hand here...not us.
 
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cameracollector is offline cameracollector Post #8  April 28,2010, 4:31pm
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Interesting discussion. I agree with dito and jayjay that the drug war cannot be won. I am in favor of legalizing, regulating, and taxing the heck out of most substances so we can redirect drug war money to something far more productive. What makes us think we can win against drugs when we couldn't win against alcohol?

It's been 25 years since I spent much time along the US-Mexico border and I assume much has changed. The Arizona law sounds like one that was passed out of sheer frustration and a sense that the issue has become overwhelming. I can understand this (even as a liberal!).

At the same time, I'm extremely concerned about the racial profiling. It seems to me that if one person is asked to show his/her proof of citizenship, then all people should be asked. The way the law is written now, a person who is here illegally from Canada or Europe or Australia or New Zealand is far less likely to be questioned for looking "reasonably suspicious." IMHO, there's no arguing that this aspect of the law is discriminatory, questionable and just plain ugly. It's no different from being pulled over for DWB (driving while black). Would we support Arizona for enacting a law targeting and profiling African Americans? All people with funny accents? People with blue eyes? This is no different.
Last edited by cameracollector; April 28,2010 at 4:33pm. Reason: bad sentence!
 
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zal is offline zal Post #9  April 28,2010, 6:37pm
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I suggest that people actually read the statute before making comments. The statute merely requires police to enforce federal immigration law. It specifically prohibts the police from using race as a sole factor. It does NOT allow/encourage the police to check people for id simply on the basis of being "suspicious". It does NOT require people to carry "proof of citizenship". It's assumed that people carry "proof" of citizenship in the form of a validly issued driver's license or state id.

In short, if you are pulled over for speeding the police will ask for a driver's license. If you don't have one, and don't speak English, refuse to answer questions or act in another way that reasonably indicates that you are a foreigner, the police will take you into custody to determine whether you are here legally. If you cannot provide proof that you are legally in the country, the police will turn you over to the federal immigration agents (ICE).

That is all. It's a good law, IMO, and only necessary because federal politicians refuse to act.
 
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cameracollector is offline cameracollector Post #10  April 28,2010, 7:31pm
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zal, I've taken this language from the Senate Engrossed bill: (I've added underlining): www.azleg.gov

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21
OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS

22
STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS

23
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,

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WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE

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PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

What part of this, in your view, protects against the kind of racial profiling people are concerned about? Let's not forget that poor people are less likely to own cars or have a driver's license or carry it around with them. Yes, I know they can go get a non-driver ID or a passport, but why?

Even the Economist is calling the bill "native hysteria," and the Economist is hardly a liberal rag.
 
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