So - what do you think of the Arizona immigration bill?


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tweet37 is offline tweet37 Post #141  August 2,2010, 4:13pm
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I don't see how the racial profiling argument, as it pertains to the AZ bill holds any water. The AZ bill has specific language to protect against profiling, while the federal immigration laws do not.

So what's next? Overturning federal immigration laws because of a precedent by the current ruling(s)?
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #142  August 2,2010, 4:32pm
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You can write something on a piece of paper all that you want to. That doesn't mean much when it comes into practice.

Traffic violations and their enforcement are extremely subjective & variable. When something is dependent on an officers mood, time of day as it relates to his/her shift, etc. you cannot take out the human side of that.

Seeing that an officer can be patrolling on a street where cars pass all day long at 38 mph in a 25 mph zone & the officer can pull over any of them that chooses or none of them you have a scenario that cannot be guided much by written law.

Criminal activity is far less subjective. Traffic infractions have a different threshold.

You can even pull someone over for crossing a yellow line... sometimes this may be necessary... yet it can be seen as a violation.

An officer is more like a judge when it comes to traffic violations... & you don't want to be in front of a judge when he is having a bad day!

Not that I would know directly...never been in front of one.
 
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zal is offline zal Post #143  August 3,2010, 7:13am
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tweet37 wrote :
I don't see how the racial profiling argument, as it pertains to the AZ bill holds any water. The AZ bill has specific language to protect against profiling, while the federal immigration laws do not.

So what's next? Overturning federal immigration laws because of a precedent by the current ruling(s)?
It's important to note that the judge's ruling had little to do with racial profiling, but more to do with the preemption argument. As a matter of law, the racial profiling arguments should be denied because of lack of standing. Since the law hasn't actually been applied, there has been no profiling. Nobody has suffered any harm, and thus cannot bring suit. The arguments are based on "chilling effect", which really only applies where the law on its face violates civil rights. This is what makes the AZ law's language critical. On its face, the law bars unconstitutional profiling. In practice, the police can do whatever they want. If they do engage in unconstitutional profiling, then the law can be challenged on the grounds that, in practice, the law leads to profiling.

bigfincat wrote :
You can write something on a piece of paper all that you want to. That doesn't mean much when it comes into practice.

Traffic violations and their enforcement are extremely subjective & variable. When something is dependent on an officers mood, time of day as it relates to his/her shift, etc. you cannot take out the human side of that.

Seeing that an officer can be patrolling on a street where cars pass all day long at 38 mph in a 25 mph zone & the officer can pull over any of them that chooses or none of them you have a scenario that cannot be guided much by written law.

Criminal activity is far less subjective. Traffic infractions have a different threshold.

You can even pull someone over for crossing a yellow line... sometimes this may be necessary... yet it can be seen as a violation.

An officer is more like a judge when it comes to traffic violations... & you don't want to be in front of a judge when he is having a bad day!

Not that I would know directly...never been in front of one.
Bigfin,
Everything that you say is true. However, the police can do all of that now. One thing to keep in mind is that AZ, being in the middle of the desert and 5 miles from the gates of Hell, most vehicles have tinted glass, making it very difficult to identify whether the occupant is hispanic or white. It's far more likely that any issues would occur after the car is pulled over and the cop then learns the driver's ethnicity. It's unlikely, however, that the cops would start demanding proof of legality on this basis (in fact the law specifically bars it). However, failure to provide a driver's license, address, speaking English, would result in further investigation, just as it would without the law.

My view at this point is that the judge's decision doesn't really hurt AZ's goal. The most important part of the law IMO is the part that requires local enforcement of federal law, I.e. bars sanctuary cities in AZ.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #144  August 3,2010, 1:44pm
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I agree with you on that .

I think that the law brings about progress on the issue.

The ruling pulled back pieces but as you say... had they allowed it proceed in its entirety pieces would have been pulled back within a short time.

I do expect that this will put focus on the solution to the problem & that common sense will have a lot to do with how enforcement on a state & federal level will proceed.
 
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acelticsteve is offline acelticsteve Post #145  August 10,2010, 10:02pm

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I agree with the bill for severial resons. One is that a subdivison of a ppolitical enity is responcible to in force the laws of that enity. ie the counity is responcible to inforce state law.
2 we do need to bring about the abuses and lose of life that is now occuring. There are severial ways that this can happen
3. there are people who have been weighting to come into this country leagely why should we give there place to some one who does not respect our law to start with.
I can understand why they want to come here they are the same reasons that people have been comming here. If I were a ruler of a cuntry that every one wanted to get out of I would find out why and do every thing in my power to change it.
I realy don't think that profiling is the problem that people think it is. People have other reasons for dowing things besides race. I was waching a door at Wal-Mart one night and watche a woman who had all ready payed for her purches at the back of the store, she went down one isle then the next. I had no way of knowing if she was shop lifting or not. when I asked her to show me her receipt she started the "you are descrmating" stuff. I admitted it was as I was descrinatering her out becuse of her behaviour not becuse of race or sex.
I would like to remind people that acording to the constution makes any one born in the US or naturlized a citizian and is entitled to all right, privlages, responcibuilitys there of. we need to thinkof our selves a Americans first.
If any one has a relivitive who the want to bring into this country should contact the proper people and do it right.
 
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