Education (or lack of) in America


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hazmat is offline hazmat Post #1  December 7,2009, 4:11pm
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America has a laundry list of problems, from unemployment, crime, budget deficits, healthcare, immigration, you name it. The biggest and most far reaching is the dumbing down of America.

Nationwide we have an almost 25% illiteracy rate. 20% can't locate the U.S. on a map. From a recent poll, 75% of Oklahoma high school students can't tell you who the first president was.

I don't believe we've all somehow gotten stupider, but there are certainly more unintelligent people out there. And therein lies the problem. How will these people get decent jobs ? How will America thrive with fewer thinkers and scientists ? A problem with unintelligent people, is that they make choices without considering the consequences. They have children without being able to support them. They commit crimes, often violent crimes, because they lack the intelligence to understand the consequences.

Unintelligent parents will most likely raise the same type of children. And the cycle continues...A great majority of these people will live in poverty, supported by the rest of us. How long is that sustainable ?

I know there are many Teachers and parents here. There are people from everywhere from all walks of life here. Is there a solution ? I welcome your thoughts.
 
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brneyedangel is offline brneyedangel Post #2  December 7,2009, 5:04pm
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Speaking from the viewpoint of a teacher, you make excellent points here, haz. Is there a solution? I don't know, but I do know that part of it would require actually allowing teachers to do their jobs instead of requiring us to be jacks of all trades, but that would only be a sliver of a start.

In a given day I am: a counselor (guidance counselors schedule classes and the crisis counselor deals with major life and death realities), a confidant (anything from Ms. K, my bf/gf broke up with me/my parents threw me out last night to Ms K., I'm pregnant), a nurse (we don't have a clinic anymore), a parent (though I don't have my own children, I must teach them right from wrong in 12th grade when no one else has--Do you know how many times I say, "Keep your hands to yourself," in a day?), a disciplinarian/administrator (writing kids up is taboo, so you have to interrupt class to deal with the trouble makers, delve out the punishments, and oftentimes call from home to reach and explain the consequences to parents who don't get it), a special education instructor (the law says I must be an expert, even though I am not educated in this manner AND we have experts in the building who are supposed to be doing this but aren't), and too many other roles to mention. If, and I stress if, there is time left, I can teach the curriculum I've been charged to create, write, and file with the state on my own time that satisfies state standards, which are constantly changing because the politicians, who know sooooo much about education, can't make up their minds which hoop I should jump through this year. Of course, if the teachers before me haven't done their jobs, I have to teach my students the skills they're missing before I can teach them what I'm actually supposed to be teaching them.

The solution is NOT standardized testing. Punishing kids is not the way to hold teachers accountable for teaching them for what they should learn. The fact is, people learn in different ways, and forcing a student to learn in a particular way and then demonstrate that knowledge in a particular way is setting a huge number of them up for failure. I prefer authentic learning and authentic learning assessments, with which I have had huge success. My students learn and retain information that is relevant, and they understand why they must learn and know it--and it's not just because I said so or the state said so or the politicians said so.

The solution also does NOT lie in coddling them and playing the warm fuzzy game with them. Getting rid of failing grades is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of, and the "genius" who came up with that really needs a good swift kick in the...well, you know where.

The solution lies in preparing our students to be active, contributing members of society. Preparing them for the harsh realities of life. Preparing them for the hard work they are going to have to do. Preparing them for the fact that no one is going to hand them a single thing. Do I sound harsh? If I do, too bad, because it's what the world is. That doesn't mean it can't be tempered with some kindness, caring, and tact, because I do it all the time and I have done it for 16 years. My students have tremendous respect for me, and they truly like and care about me because they know where they stand with me and that I'm not pulling the wool over their eyes about what's real. We have to start preparing them for what is REAL. If we don't, we are really going to be in a lot of trouble sooner than we think.

But how do we get there? I wish I had that answer. I wish I had the ability to get people to work and do and care. But not everyone does. Some parents, teachers, and people in power DO care, in fact, I think most do, and they do make a difference. The problem is those who either don't care or don't care to make the effort. How do you motivate them? Can you motivate them? Too many are apathetic and lethargic that I don't really know. That's the part that makes me sad and makes me worry.
 
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CJF is offline CJF Post #3  December 7,2009, 5:24pm
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I read an interesting article here in GA by this high school kid who talked about how the college prep courses at his school were all being dropped because of a "lack of interest" and no funds to keep those open. However he talked about how his school could afford new bleachers and athletic equipment.

It's the same cliche over and over again in High School..the jocks get all the attention while most of them are barely passing their classes with a C-minus average. A lot of parents push their kids to be athletes, perhaps hoping that they will some how make it into the Pros and become millionaires.

Some kids who feel they lack intelligence are either dropping out and getting involved in crime and ways to make a fast buck (selling drugs) or they are trying hard to become the next Kobe Bryant or Tom Brady to support their families.

While there are some incredibly wonderful teachers out there that encourage every student they have, there are likely more that are over-worked, underpaid, threatened with violence and abused on a daily basis in schools across the country.

Too many kids treat High School just as a social playground. Too many of them enter school feeling no hope at all about going to college. Add illiteracy and those that use English as a second language and you have way too many students who just don't care.

Is the American dream still alive here, the one where if you worked really hard, studied and went to college and made something of your life you would have it all or has it been replaced by kids who want to be famous, live a celebrity lifestyle and who's idols are musicians, actors and basketball stars...not teachers, doctors, lawyers or counselors?

I am not a teacher..I don't know the answer. We as a country...as parents....need to make sure our children grow up with integrity, honesty and values. Those that struggle in school need to continue to get help..be tutored. Schools need to emphasize more on college prep courses and not so much on extra circular activities.

Continue to support the No Child Left Behind programs and parents need to be more involved with their children's education. How many of those parents attend football or basketball games but can't take the time to join the PTA or meet their kids teachers? The first step starts at home.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #4  December 7,2009, 5:31pm
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I think much of what you describe is not a problem with education per se, but with the underclass culture.

Welfare (paying people not to work), lack of jobs, and an ultra-elite of rich people who gain at the expense of many ... that's the problem.
 
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hazmat is offline hazmat Post #5  December 7,2009, 6:47pm
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D_Lion wrote :
I think much of what you describe is not a problem with education per se, but with the underclass culture.

Welfare (paying people not to work), lack of jobs, and an ultra-elite of rich people who gain at the expense of many ... that's the problem.

Those are problems, but I still think a person with intelligence and drive can make a nice honest living, regardless of the welfare spongers or super-rich. You don't think that having 75 million people in this country who can't read is a problem ? Most of those are your welfare people. High schoolers who can name the last five Idol winners but can't name an equal number of Presidents is the root of the problem.
Last edited by hazmat; December 9,2009 at 5:38am.
 
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ThePriestess is online now ThePriestess Post #6  December 7,2009, 7:04pm
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hazmat wrote :
High schoolers who can name the last five Idol winners but can't name an equal number of Presidents is the root of the problem.
Hrm ...

Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Jordin Sparks ... uhm ...

I think I fail.
 
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jsbach is offline jsbach Post #7  December 7,2009, 10:27pm
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Personal responsibility.

Children from a young age and up should be taught age appropriate responsiblity. Facing the consequences of our behavior, good or bad.

Adults HAVE to be a good example of this.

Our country was founded by people who took personal responsibility quite seriously.

If your child is not getting a decent education. Do something about it. The same goes for your own education. Formal and/or self taught.

Grow up and take responsibility for the things you can control.
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #8  December 7,2009, 11:08pm
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Personally I believe parental support is vital for effective education. I've experienced virtually every type of school system short of boarding school...I've still never attended the same school for more than two and a half years, I attended two kindergartens, two high schools, and three colleges. The only major differences were the people at the schools; curriculum didn't make that big of an impact. What did make an impact was my parents encouraging me to do well. They felt that my education was their personal responsibility, not the school's.

And I think that's one of the biggest issues. Parents simply pass the buck onto the schools without caring about it themselves. I'm not a child psychologist but I'm pretty sure children tend to want their parent's approval. If the parent doesn't care about how well their children are doing in school you remove a major motivator for the child. A school is simply too big for a child to get that individual sense of accomplishment and personal responsibility. The parent needs to instill that value by taking an interest in their child's education.

I see this as a general issue with the United States as a whole currently; we want the "system" to take care of our problems. We want our bread and circuses handed to us. Guess what? People rarely value things that are handed to them. We value what we earn.

But I suppose that's outside the scope of the OP =). Of course there's more to our education issues but I believe on a personal level, rather than an institutional level, is a more attainable goal that generalized "fix everything that's wrong with this" legislation...I mean solutions. That's my thoughts on it anyway!

Jacquesne
 
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lil_lamb is offline lil_lamb Post #9  December 7,2009, 11:15pm
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long complicated story... i lived in the ghetto for many years and ended up doing PTA at one of the schools. let me tell you, that is eye opening.

one of the beliefs i came to from that experience is that you can't learn if you don't identify. and one of the fundamental problems to my mind was the social isolation. i lived one block's walk from multi-million-dollar residences, but it might as well have been mars. you can't parachute a teacher in, even a very good one, and think they'll be effective. the kids won't understand a word of what the teacher says, and vice versa - the frames of reference will be too different. such kids don't know they're citizens and have rights and duties - they don't feel it, even if they've been told it. all this stuff for participating in a larger society is so foreign, it might as well not as exist.

i did a class at the adult school. same problem. there was a guy, an incredible singer, who lived right by this community theatre, one of those non-profit, uplift the community deals. someone suggested, to their irritation, that he participate in that and he didn't even know it was there. then he started talking about Amercian Idol and that type of auditioning, and it was so off-the-mark re. what a community theatre is... well, it started a fight.
 
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chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #10  December 8,2009, 4:18am
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It isn't just one issue. There are a lot of reasons for this mess.

Parents have decided it's just too difficult and time-consuming to be involved with their kids. They have other priorities. I volunteered for years in the schools and have seen mommy's and daddy's social life be more important than making sure their child understands their homework. On the other hand, I've also seen parents withdraw from participation because they just don't understand the subjects being studied themselves.

Teachers here are either wonderful or horrible, and there doesn't seem to be much in between. I guess it's just like any other job - you have people that care about their work and others there just to collect a paycheck.

Vegas schools are notoriously awful, which is especially sad since (last I checked) it's the 5th largest school district in the nation. One thing they do right, though, is magnet schools. They finally realized that not everyone is going to go to college, and honestly, it's ridiculous to think everyone should. The competition to get in to these schools is tough with only 25% of applicants accepted. Entrance is based on a lottery system.

In the magnet schools, they teach the standard high school courses (accelerated) as well as a trade. It can be automotive technology, media production, computer science or cosmetology. Kids graduate with an advanced diploma and a trade, with local businesses hiring them straight out of high school into jobs with a future.

Okay, a little of topic, but it's something good that an awful school district is doing. And is there really anything we can do to force others to care anyway? That's the heart of the issue. It seems to be something you would have based on the way you were raised, and I've been trying to find a way to fix others' parenting for years.
 
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