Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #1  November 19,2009, 6:37am

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Can someone please tell Obama he won. There is no need to continue campaigning. Perhaps it is time to move on and say, run the country!

*end rant*
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #2  November 19,2009, 1:21pm
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Hey, you don't build up all those campaigning skills and then just throw them out.

Or perhaps he's already running for re-election? =)
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #3  November 19,2009, 2:26pm
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I hear your rant.

I see a bit of contradiction with it though.

You say for him to govern already but then post quite a bit about stopping him from putting forth his agenda.

I have also heard people say that he is going "to shove his agenda down our throats". That implies that he should not go ahead & govern.

Can both exist?
 
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Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #4  November 19,2009, 5:51pm

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bigfincat wrote :
I hear your rant.

I see a bit of contradiction with it though.

You say for him to govern already but then post quite a bit about stopping him from putting forth his agenda.

I have also heard people say that he is going "to shove his agenda down our throats". That implies that he should not go ahead & govern.

Can both exist?
When one's agenda goes against the best interest of the people you are governing it becomes his agenda and not that of the country. To govern he must put forth and implement the countries agenda.

I would never argue that health care reform is part of the countries agenda. The problem comes in that all proposals coming from DC will not reform health care at all. They are only taking the existing broken model and using taxpayer money to bring more people into it. I guess a metaphor would be an unstable bridge. Would you first repair the bridge or divert more cars over it?
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #5  November 19,2009, 8:00pm
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Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
When one's agenda goes against the best interest of the people you are governing it becomes his agenda and not that of the country. To govern he must put forth and implement the countries agenda.

I would never argue that health care reform is part of the countries agenda. The problem comes in that all proposals coming from DC will not reform health care at all. They are only taking the existing broken model and using taxpayer money to bring more people into it. I guess a metaphor would be an unstable bridge. Would you first repair the bridge or divert more cars over it?
I agree with you that the short-term effects of this reform will be as you say...but I think that it is a necessary progression to greater change & a long-term benefit for the people.

As much as we'd like to, it just would not be acceptable for this bill to instantly lessen the wages of all parts of the healthcare industry as well as that of lawyers involved.

As a one year plan it is not effective in lowering costs (a public option will be effective in providing more options for autonomy) but the 20 year effect will be significant & in my view a positive one.

I was actually referring to every one of President Obama's ideas & not just healthcare.

I do believe there are many supporters of Obama's agenda. Most polls to the contrary or so poorly worded so as to deem them worthless. Every poll that I have read from both sides of the spectrum clearly guide the responder to certain answers.

Also, there is a large number of people that have let fear influence their thoughts. I think that it is a huge mistake to let fear guide your decisions. I think that we are stronger than that.

Every decision that the President makes or even suggests is met with great scrutiny & public opinion (or at least the ones that are heard the loudest) make it necessary to supply the reasoning behind decisions. He has to "campaign" or he will be criticized for shoving legislation down the country's throat.

I wish he could be unimpeded & solve problems in the exact manner that he wished. Then I think that we would be able to judge whether or not his ideas can work.

Unfortunately the voice of dissent is almost always louder than that of agreement.
 
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Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #6  November 20,2009, 6:58am

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bigfincat wrote :
As much as we'd like to, it just would not be acceptable for this bill to instantly lessen the wages of all parts of the healthcare industry as well as that of lawyers involved.
The problem you are not seeing is that doctors and support staff are not overpaid at this moment. When you consider that there aren't enough doctors to supply the needs of the patient pool they are actually underpaid, big time. I work for around 75 doctors only 10% are American born. Kinda sad in my opinion.
bigfincat wrote :
As a one year plan it is not effective in lowering costs (a public option will be effective in providing more options for autonomy) but the 20 year effect will be significant & in my view a positive one.
Actually the plans as they stand will drive costs up at a much higher rate. The structure needs to be changed so that consumers can see the actual costs. Right now people believe those statements they get after proceedures are the actual costs. Not even close. The problem is the system (which includes Medicare and Medicade) forces doctors to inflate prices so that after the contractual reductions they can cover costs. It is a silly game born of a broken system.
bigfincat wrote :
I was actually referring to every one of President Obama's ideas & not just healthcare.
Cap and trade, just look at big tobacco litigation. Where did the cost go? Taxing utilities who know they customers are dependant on their services will only shift the costs to the consumer. The rich can afford the increases the poor will be subsidized, as usual the middle class will bare the cost. Card check will push unions on businesses that even the employees don't want. The unions don't care about the employees or the business they just want the cash flow of the union dues. The thing that makes me sick about unions is they have become the monster they once fought against.
bigfincat wrote :
I do believe there are many supporters of Obama's agenda. Most polls to the contrary or so poorly worded so as to deem them worthless. Every poll that I have read from both sides of the spectrum clearly guide the responder to certain answers.
I agree the wording of these polls get the results they want. Still at the heart of it people want changes they just don't want them until the economy recovers. I am very suspicious of claims that this must happen now when the only changes a year from now are a stronger economy and less Democrats in office.
bigfincat wrote :
Also, there is a large number of people that have let fear influence their thoughts. I think that it is a huge mistake to let fear guide your decisions. I think that we are stronger than that.
I agree fear is driving everything. Rational choices must be made. I don't think the fear is going away until people see a real recovery. I can look at the data and see and understand that the worst is over. Not many people can do that. People will always fear what they don't understand.
bigfincat wrote :
Every decision that the President makes or even suggests is met with great scrutiny & public opinion (or at least the ones that are heard the loudest) make it necessary to supply the reasoning behind decisions. He has to "campaign" or he will be criticized for shoving legislation down the country's throat.
So what exactly is the downside to waiting until next year and making sure the legislation is really reform instead of a bunch of politicians wanting their name on a bill. Obama's hasn't explained anything. He goes between Bush did it or creating a straw man (big pharma, big business).
bigfincat wrote :
I wish he could be unimpeded & solve problems in the exact manner that he wished. Then I think that we would be able to judge whether or not his ideas can work.
The problem with this is once legislation is in place it is very hard to remove. That and if it nukes our economy there is little that can be done at that point to fix it. A lot of people no longer believe that he can fix anything. This creates a huge problem because if no one believes in him even a good plan won't fix anything because of fear. It becomes self fullfilling profacy.

He needs to show he is listening to the people. I would suggest tabling health care reform to the spring. This will let people relax and spend for Christmas. This will boost the recovery and show real recovery in the spring. People will feel safer and not pick everything apart. If the plan is a good one it will still pass.
 
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dnnmllr is offline dnnmllr Post #7  November 21,2009, 9:12am
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(When discussing running the Country), Limbaugh asked, "What does Obama have against America (the Americans)?"
Last edited by dnnmllr; November 21,2009 at 9:46am. Reason: punctuation
 
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acelticsteve is offline acelticsteve Post #8  December 11,2009, 5:05pm

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you know it is bad when Limbugh makes sence. I never relized how flaming the liberials were untill they got in office.
 
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