Why is Healthcare such a big deal anyway?


Reply
 
Topic Tools Search this Thread
saulgoode is offline saulgoode Post #1  October 29,2009, 9:11am
saulgoode's Avatar

Unregistered

Joined: Oct 2008

Posts: 1,308

See profile

Why do the Liberals want to put healthcare under federal supervision?

Why do the Conservatives oppose it so much?

There aren't ethical reasons, don't argue that. If you think anything in our federal gov't is done out of "goodwill," then you are naive.

The Federal Liberals want the ~control~ and the ~income~ from healthcare in the US, crossing state boundaries, and it has always been one of their top priorities at the Federal Level (NOT always at the State Level, mind you, though it weighs heavily in our Far East and Far West blue states).

Why do the Federal Liberals want healthcare so much, and why is it the first thing they go after every time they gain control of congress?

Why is controlling our healthcare industry at the heart of the Liberal charter?


- Saul
 
  Reply With Quote
notyet is offline notyet Post #2  October 29,2009, 9:59am
notyet's Avatar

anticipates

Power Poster

Joined: Nov 2008

the province formerly known as British North America

Posts: 5,237

See profile

because they already control your education, your retirement and your income. it is the next logical progression in the advancement of the social state.

and it is the largest segment of the economy that is outside of the regulation of the federal government- and there is a lot of tax dollars to be collected off of it.
 
  Reply With Quote
D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #3  October 29,2009, 4:12pm
D_Lion's Avatar

- Ladies want to wring my neck - you have been warned!

Sage

Joined: Aug 2008

NJ

Posts: 30,721

See profile

It is one of the largest, fastest-growing government expenses.

That is unsustainable.
 
  Reply With Quote
Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #4  October 29,2009, 5:08pm

blames self-help books

Power Poster

Joined: Oct 2009

STL

Posts: 4,879

See profile

D_Lion wrote :
It is one of the largest, fastest-growing government expenses.

That is unsustainable.
Are you saying this a reason we need health care reform? Because that is like saying well my kids can't keep their room clean so I will give them a bigger room and more stuff and see if that helps.
 
  Reply With Quote
D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #5  November 1,2009, 9:41am
D_Lion's Avatar

- Ladies want to wring my neck - you have been warned!

Sage

Joined: Aug 2008

NJ

Posts: 30,721

See profile

Jo, you make a simplistic assumption.

Just becasue most people favoring the common health reform proposals believe the Democrats are motivated by expanding the welfare state, does not mean expanding the welfare state is the only motivation or possible outcome of reform.

I favor reform to impose rationing, reduce administrative bloat, and curtail the out-of-control profiteering by executives, lawyers, and politicians.

In any case, my fact remains: a 6+% CAGR element on 13% of GDP cannot be sustained in a 3% CAGR GDP. Full stop.
 
  Reply With Quote
Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #6  November 1,2009, 11:14am

blames self-help books

Power Poster

Joined: Oct 2009

STL

Posts: 4,879

See profile

D_Lion wrote :
Jo, you make a simplistic assumption.

Just becasue most people favoring the common health reform proposals believe the Democrats are motivated by expanding the welfare state, does not mean expanding the welfare state is the only motivation or possible outcome of reform.

I favor reform to impose rationing, reduce administrative bloat, and curtail the out-of-control profiteering by executives, lawyers, and politicians.

In any case, my fact remains: a 6+% CAGR element on 13% of GDP cannot be sustained in a 3% CAGR GDP. Full stop.
To me allowing government control is too extreme when other measures haven't been tried. A simple modification of sec. 106 can allow people to see and understand how much of their income is really is health care. It would allow them to make choices as to how much coverage they need.

We didn't have this problem when everyone had high deductible insurance. Most costs were paid out of pocket so those costs were kept down or the doctors wouldn't have patients. I work for doctors. We bill 2,000 for a procedure that has a cost of 900. We have to because we have a contractual write down of 1,100. Of that 900 part of the costs are safeguards against malpractice including extra test because we can no longer take someone's word about their current state of health. Yes if you lie about your health and are injured because of it the doctor still loses the suit. Then there is the allotted portion of the doctors malpractice insurance. Staff which includes a huge billing and coding staff. Medicare and Medicaid being the most time consuming. Then the last bit of unneeded cost is the portion of Medicare and Medicade that must be shifted to private insurance because doctors are not paid the full costs through those programs.

In my opinion fix these problems first then we will see if any other reform is needed.
 
  Reply With Quote
Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #7  November 2,2009, 11:10am
Jacquesne's Avatar

knows the answer...42

Veteran

Joined: May 2008

Reno, NV

Posts: 1,357

See profile

So, in order to reduce a government expense, we pass a bill to...create...more...bureaucracy? Sorry, that was hard to write. It's like saying we're paying our Congressmen too much so let's form a committee to oversee the pay increases of Congress. For some reason the idea that the overseers have to be paid too seems to avoid being factored in somewhere.

The idea that we can reduce administrative bloat by creating a new administration board to oversee the situation is so counter-intuitive I'm frankly quite confused. "Reform" requires enforcement. Laws don't just get passed and then suddenly everything works the way it says.

While we're talking about economic issues, I've got a great idea...why not pay off my credit card bill by using another credit card? It's genius! It can't possibly fail!

And we wonder why our economy collapses. Sigh. I'm just hoping that someone gets the connection. We'll have to see =).

Jacquesne
 
  Reply With Quote
D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #8  November 2,2009, 3:50pm
D_Lion's Avatar

- Ladies want to wring my neck - you have been warned!

Sage

Joined: Aug 2008

NJ

Posts: 30,721

See profile

Jeez ... what?

End "insurance" entirely. End the insane paperwork and handwritten (!!!, in 2009!!!) forms. All gone, done, eliminated. 20% of useless bloat, gone.

End $10 Million paydays + for rich insurance executives, end lucrative paydays for rich lobbyists, rich politicians, rich lawyers, etc.

End $1 Million treatments which extend life by 30 days.

End people gaming the courts for settlements.

That's the savings, all $400 Billion of it.

***

If you don't agree, come with an intelligent response to the unsurvivable fact that medical expense is growing more than twice as fast as the economy?
 
  Reply With Quote
Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #9  November 2,2009, 4:36pm
Jacquesne's Avatar

knows the answer...42

Veteran

Joined: May 2008

Reno, NV

Posts: 1,357

See profile

End...insurance?

So everyone pays for their medical expenses out of pocket? So only the rich can afford expensive medical procedures?

How does that improve health care?

I'm totally confused now. So you're saying scrap health care reform completely and get rid of all insurance companies? How does that accomplish anything other than meaning a huge portion of our population can no longer afford medical care? That stuff isn't free unless you want doctors to work for charity and companies to give medical equipment away.

What exactly are you proposing here?
 
  Reply With Quote
Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #10  November 2,2009, 4:59pm
Rand_011's Avatar

Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2008

Anaheim

Posts: 998

See profile

I am sorry ... That made me laugh ... The idea that having the government handle insurance or paying claims would reduce paperwork just about made me drop to the floor from laughter

Let's see ... Just a quick comparison on length of forms ... MediCare Sups (looking at open enrollment) is 17+ pages ... Blue Cross is 9 (4 of which are state/federal mandated disclosures) ...

So ... How in Pete's name is just having Uncle Sam handle going to reduce paperwork?!?!?!?!?!
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply


« If Asked, Could You Clearly Explain Your Political Preference? | Politics | AAFES Concessions closing in Afghanistan »
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Topics
Topic Topic Starter Board Replies Last Post
Question: Why is socialism bad? The1Tomcat Politics 401 October 4,2010 3:08pm
Dating Deal Breakers! fireheart35 A Man's Point of view 42 April 22,2010 5:51pm
Deal breakers or no? Shepherd3597 Relationships 9 September 23,2009 5:13pm
Vote On Healthcare DennisWisconsin Intelligent Conversation 2 August 24,2009 6:18am
Vote For Your Choice On Healthcare DennisWisconsin Chit Chat 0 August 19,2009 10:47pm

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“It's important to understand the way a site works. Rigidly assuming / insisting that eH works likes all the others you're used to isn't utilizing the site functions to your best advantage. No.... ... ” –  Wiseman2

Join the “First contact on eHarmony, smile, questions, email?” discussion

“ If you have yet to meet, you don't know him or whether you two will form a connection. Connections formed over e-mail tend to be fantasies. You will see this echoed over and over by experienced ... ” –  shapeShifter79

Join the “How do i recoonect with him again?” discussion

“ Then it's a bit premature to worry about being friend-zoned. The first step is to go out on dates! What specific steps did you try? How many women did you ask out in person? Did you buy a ... ” –  shapeShifter79

Join the “For women to answer: How to avoid the friend zone” discussion

“ This is an old thread. She asked this in 2010. By now they are likely very exclusive or very over. ” –  shapeShifter79

Join the “is there a reason to ask if we're exclusive?” discussion

“ I'm sure he wouldn't get that. And I can't be sure that was the actual message. But it sems kind of likely to me.” –  boomer_gal

Join the “Why am I not successful?” discussion

“Hi eccemuliere and welcome to eHA.On an internet forum like eHA, you're going to get a wide variety of responses; some you'll like and some you won't. It's best to focus on the ones that speak to ... ” –  Sassafras54

Join the “Being blown off, or something else?” discussion

“ Although I have ignored my gut at times, in hindsight it's always been right, in terms of recognizing bad choices. QUOTE] But once we realize our past mistakes, we can use our reason to clue us ... ” –  eccemuliere

Join the “Is Your Gut Leading - or Misleading You?” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:11am.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0