Why is Healthcare such a big deal anyway?


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acelticsteve is offline acelticsteve Post #61  November 13,2009, 12:23am

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1. To throw people in jail becuse they do not have health insurence makes me think of some thing called the stamp act. it is terriney.
2. there many proublems in helth care that are coused by the insurance Co's. I was talking to a Dr and told him about the few things that I am undercare for. he told me that there severial things that he would have to tract, like six or seven, but under most insurence he could only tract three of them and would have to send me to a spesicalest. DR' often have a hard time getting the Co's to pay up.
3. In most states you can not be refused treatment weather you can pay or not. My brother inlaw had major heart surgy and did not have insurence, he made a paymeny plan with his DR. Most bills if you send them something on it mothly it usally is accepted, they will be hapy to have the money rather then you just leaving it with them.

The thing that bothers me most is the way that the Congressmen handled the home town meetings. This is the same bunch that gave into the protest aganst the Vet Num war, but would not listen to the people who they are elected to serve, not one of them had the currage to tell the leadership "my people don't want it so there fore I must vate aganst it."
 
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Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #62  November 13,2009, 10:13am

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I don't believe the problem falls on health insurance providers. They, like all businesses, are reacting to market demand. The problem is tax code. Section 106 gives employers the ability to give you pretax health benefits. Good deal for all but most people don't understand that part of their wages are health insurance. More people than not think what they pay into their employer provided health plans is not the total bill. As the cost of health insurance goes up you lose disposable income because it comes out of potential raises.

Employer provided insurance wasn't a problem until the introduction of HMOs. Before HMOs you had what looks a lot like current high deductable health plans. For a family plan each member had a $500 deductable or $2,000 for a family. Because of this most people paid their doctor bills out of pocket. This kept routine visit costs low.

With the HMOs you suddenly had a $20 copay. Great except you had awful coverage and had to jump through hoops to get to specialists. Employees complained so the insurance companies offered for X more you don't have to have authorization. Then for X more you can have a prescription plan. For X more, it just kept growing. All the while employees had no idea how fast the cost was rising.

They also had no idea they were part of the rising costs. If you go to the doctor and have to pay out of pocket you are going to question tests that are expensive and possibly unnecessary. If you pay $20 a visit it is like an all you can eat buffet, you take what you can get for the $20 whether you are hungry or not.

Until we go back to high deductable insurance this will not be fixed we are just shifting the cost.
 
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acelticsteve is offline acelticsteve Post #63  December 1,2009, 10:09pm

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I agree in so far that part of the problem is small compaired to the whole. However every time I try to explain it when I post I get a message that I have to redgester as member in the advice comunity so all my work is lost. so let me make it fast as to who I feel are contrubing to the problem.
1. people who run to the emerencey room over every little sniffel. There are 24 hr pharmeceys. urgent care walk in that are cheeper.
2. people who do not pay there bills.
3. DR's who dubble charge the insurence co's throw them in jail, froud id froud.
4. lawyers who advertize for clinets to sue Dr's and hospitles.
5. Many hospitles were started by churches, and rich people who wanted to give back to there comunitys or to meet a need in the comunity now are tacken over by big busnesses.
6. out sorcesing.
7. buying expencive equitment that one hospitle could never get the use out of but severial would.
8. advertizing.
Look I don't know how it is in St. Louie but it is cold down here in competition, and I have little heat. If you want clearifaction on any of these drop a note on my profile ok.
but I dont see how what is comming out of washington is any better then putting a bandaid on a broken arm.
 
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shedeville is offline shedeville Post #64  March 6,2010, 12:16pm
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Rand_011 wrote :
I am sorry ... That made me laugh ... The idea that having the government handle insurance or paying claims would reduce paperwork just about made me drop to the floor from laughter
Pretty easily amused there, eh, Rand_011?

You like facts, doncha?

http://www.pnhp.org/publications/nejmadmin.pdf

From the NEJM; out of date now, but if the trend hasn't continued in the direction observed and reported there, I'll eat my universal single public payer health insurance plan.

Emphases below mine; note that private insurers/insurance in Canada are not remotely comparable to private insurers/insurance in the US, since private insurance in Canada covers non-medical expenses, non-medically necessary services and subsidiary items like eyeglasses and drugs.

wrote :
Costs of Health Care Administration
in the United States and Canada


background
A decade ago, the administrative costs of health care in the United States greatly exceeded those in Canada. We investigated whether the ascendancy of computerization, managed care, and the adoption of more businesslike approaches to health care have decreased administrative costs.

...
results
In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States, or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada’s national health insurance program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada’s private insurers was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers’ administrative costs were far lower in Canada. Between 1969 and 1999, the share of the U.S. health care labor force accounted for by administrative workers grew from 18.2 percent to 27.3 percent. In Canada, it grew from 16.0 percent in 1971 to 19.1 percent in 1996. (Both nations’ figures exclude insurance-industry personnel.)


conclusions

The gap between U.S. and Canadian spending on health care administration has grown to $752 per capita. A large sum might be saved in the United States if administrative costs could be trimmed by implementing a Canadian-style health care system.

We're just crying all the way to the competitive advantage bank up here, we are.
Last edited by shedeville; March 6,2010 at 12:58pm. Reason: fixed formatting
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #65  March 7,2010, 6:10am
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acelticsteve wrote :
I agree in so far that part of the problem is small compaired to the whole. However every time I try to explain it when I post I get a message that I have to redgester as member in the advice comunity so all my work is lost. so let me make it fast as to who I feel are contrubing to the problem.
1. people who run to the emerencey room over every little sniffel. There are 24 hr pharmeceys. urgent care walk in that are cheeper.
2. people who do not pay there bills.
3. DR's who dubble charge the insurence co's throw them in jail, froud id froud.
4. lawyers who advertize for clinets to sue Dr's and hospitles.
5. Many hospitles were started by churches, and rich people who wanted to give back to there comunitys or to meet a need in the comunity now are tacken over by big busnesses.
6. out sorcesing.
7. buying expencive equitment that one hospitle could never get the use out of but severial would.
8. advertizing.
Look I don't know how it is in St. Louie but it is cold down here in competition, and I have little heat. If you want clearifaction on any of these drop a note on my profile ok.
but I dont see how what is comming out of washington is any better then putting a bandaid on a broken arm.
I think someone is playing a prank on you. Someone switched your keys around.....Home row keys are as follows "asdf jkl;". Sorry, not trying to be an @%$ but that was painful to read.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #66  March 7,2010, 6:38am
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dito wrote :
Campaign For Liberty — NPR reporting a Free Market Solution for Health Care!?!
That certainly sounds better than the government stealing money from me. I like the comment that food stamps, welfare and unemployment should be done the same way (by a private organization of course). If only a business would be created to deal with this.....you certainly would never have a shortage of bodies for labor with 5 percent of the population being "available" even in a good economy. Hmmm.......

I do see the downsides to this though....and with no specifics on what company is offering this deal it's really hard to research.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #67  March 7,2010, 8:13am
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dwreese182 wrote :
That certainly sounds better than the government stealing money from me. I like the comment that food stamps, welfare and unemployment should be done the same way (by a private organization of course). If only a business would be created to deal with this.....you certainly would never have a shortage of bodies for labor with 5 percent of the population being "available" even in a good economy. Hmmm.......

I do see the downsides to this though....and with no specifics on what company is offering this deal it's really hard to research.
Something needs to be done with welfare and food stamps. It's just a little bit disgusting.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #68  March 7,2010, 8:28am
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dito wrote :
Something needs to be done with welfare and food stamps. It's just a little bit disgusting.
Yeah, I don't like to be forced into charity. I guess no one can say I don't contribute though.

Oh well.....the only thing you can really do is change citizenship, this stuff ain't changing in my lifetime. If it weren't for those pesky jobs that require US security clearances or, even worse, citizenship, I would be denouncing and relocating to a more tax "friendly" country.....and urge others to join.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #69  March 7,2010, 8:32am
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dwreese182 wrote :
Yeah, I don't like to be forced into charity. I guess no one can say I don't contribute though.

Oh well.....the only thing you can really do is change citizenship, this stuff ain't changing in my lifetime. If it weren't for those pesky jobs that require US security clearances or, even worse, citizenship, I would be denouncing and relocating to a more tax "friendly" country.....and urge others to join.
Yeah it's a drag. People on food stamps eat better than we do.

It will be interesting to see which way things go when the dollar crisis hits. It's either going to get better, or a lot lot worse.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #70  March 8,2010, 8:49am
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shedeville wrote :
Pretty easily amused there, eh, Rand_011?

You like facts, doncha?

http://www.pnhp.org/publications/nejmadmin.pdf

From the NEJM; out of date now, but if the trend hasn't continued in the direction observed and reported there, I'll eat my universal single public payer health insurance plan.

Emphases below mine; note that private insurers/insurance in Canada are not remotely comparable to private insurers/insurance in the US, since private insurance in Canada covers non-medical expenses, non-medically necessary services and subsidiary items like eyeglasses and drugs.



We're just crying all the way to the competitive advantage bank up here, we are.
I am fairly easily amused ... Uhmm ... I hate to break it to you but there are a lot of non-medically necessary services and subsidiary items like eyeglasses and drugs (I am excluding illegal ones from my reference) covered by plans n the US ... So I am unsure where you get your facts from ...

On the Admin costs related to government ... They will be higher ... I can almost guarantee it ... Government unions require higher wages ... Government employees can't be held responsible for what they say (ie you can't sue them because they mispoke, I know I am not saying it quite correctly, but the exact language is slipping my mind at the moment) ... Efficiency within the government is about nil ... Ask anyone in the army that has looked at how much they pay for a toilet seat ... Look at the mandated benefits that federal employees have.

I have difficulty thinking of anything the government does well ... Teachign students, nope ... Good roads, nope ... post office, nope ... I can continue, but I am guessing you get the idea
 
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