Why is Healthcare such a big deal anyway?

With Connecticut having one of the largest concentration of insurance companies in the country, the competition has very little effect. You can go out & shop around but will find little difference with each charging more yearly for less service.

I think that you overestimate the willingness for any company to reduce its pricing. Even with growing profits it is very rare for a company to not accept the extra profit. They often do not pass savings onto their clients.

You say that government involvement is corporatism but that would not equate to a change at all then. Health care is that now & would be that after any bill is passed.

I can also tell you that a doctor wanting more patients is NOT a good thing in health care. It is very bad as I have seen offices that will never turn down new patients.

They cannot handle the volume that they currently have & the only thing that more volume accomplishes is less care.

I have seen them take on an obscene amount of newcomers while being unwilling to spend the money to hire more people to handle such volume. They don't mind if their is no personal involvement with the patient or if the see you for 5 minutes & never return your phone calls.

Hi Rand,

It was my understanding that the State only allowed two companies to provide independent insurance back when I dropped mine: Blue Cross and Oxford. Mysteriously, their premiums were within $5 of each other. There are about half a dozen now and there are hundreds of dollars difference in premiums. Of course, none are remotely affordable, though the premiums have dropped a bit over the past six months (along with what they buy, no doubt). These are all recent developments... I wonder what inspired them... hmmm....

Off the top of my head, I know there is Aetna, Oxford, GHI, HIP, Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield ... And they've been there at least 9 years ... The benefits for just about all of them, other than HIP, would be considered very good benefits even if offered by an employer ... Why are they nearly the same price, you might ask ... You'd have to talk to the New York state insurance department ... They are the ones who approve ALL rates.

And NY insurers most definitely do block coverage for many individuals. I have two immediate friends who can't get health insurance.

Correct ... If they went without insurance for a while they'd get stuck with a waiting periods and/or exclusions ... Which makes perfect sense ... You can't get fire insurance to start yesterday to cover the house that just burned to the ground ...

Still, following your logic; are you saying that the problem with New York's insurance regulations is that too many New Yorkers are getting coverage? No ... I thought it would be rather obvious ... The regulations cause sky-rocketing premiums ... Remove the regulations ... More insurers will flock to the state and prices will drop considerably.

That if the insurance industry here were allowed to discriminate based on a broad range of criteria, choosing only the most profitable customers, that my premiums would be more affordable? Did you miss where I defined discriminate? Discriminate with regards to premium = rates dependent upon age/gender/health status/location ...

That this would bring New York back down to a 1 or a 2 like the rest of the country where presumably the insurance industry already has carte blanch when it comes to vetting its customers? 1 or 2 insurers in a state???? The only state like that is Hawaii ... Montana is the next closest, but I can still think of at least three individual insurance carriers in the state ... Massachusettes might be the next closest, though I have no idea how their system actually works ... All I know is I get tons of calls from residents trying to get insurance off the state plan.

What's supposed to happen to everybody else? How old are you Rand? How old am I? Ahh ... The classic 'You are too young and naive to understand things' argument ... Let's try another approach ... How long have you studied the insurance industry?? My guess is that I am far more aware of nuances within the industry and have a lot more experience ... Granted, I may have only been here 9 years, parents here 35 years ... I may have only worked with more individuals on a yearly basis than most agents work with in their lifetime ... But I am the young and stu.pid kid ... Hahhahaha ... I love it!

Are you old enough to realize that all kinds of things are going to be going wrong with you real soon? Nah ... Not old enough at all ... Still working on getting rid of my baby teeth ...

Why don't we all have the right to decent health care in this country, that doesn't cost more than our homes?! For most, it doesn't cost more than their homes ...

Why can the other developed nations afford to care for their citizens but we, supposedly the wealthiest country of all cannot? Because they get taxed up the wazoo for it ...

They are separate businesses, aye?

But if they can make more profits by volume why not lower prices?

Exactly and it will get worse. What do you think a mandate to buy insurance will do? That's right, more money to insurance companies and they wont be forced to lower their rates.

Bad doctors go under and good ones prosper.

OK...he states that Medicare/Medicaid sets its prices & excludes competition... which he claims results in higher costs to consumers... yet Drs. complain constantly that they are not paid enough for procedures from the patients that have those benefits.

One thing about the Dr.'s argument does not make sense to me.

OK...he states that Medicare/Medicaid sets its prices & excludes competition... which he claims results in higher costs to consumers... yet Drs. complain constantly that they are not paid enough for procedures from the patients that have those benefits.

On a side note... I would love to see Napolitano disect corporate law for Constitutionality for once. He is a huge fan of any law that favors big business. Quite one sided & biased.

I say that we get government out of health care... I think that I will even forego all Doctors & get my diagnoses from the internet or others that have the same ailments. I will go directly to the pharmacy for my meds. If the gov't is going to force me to go to a Dr. to get medicine then they must be controlled. Much like utilities, healthcare is in constant demand. It doesn't act in the same manner as other free market products.

I do wonder how little a Dr. will charge for a procedure. How much money will he settle for per year in order to stay competitive? There is a difference because one Dr CANNOT produce an unlimited amount of product. There is a very finite number of patients that they can treat safely per day. It is not like Doritos where they will just keep making more. He cannot offer things cheaper unless he decides to earn less. What will that do to the supply of Drs.?? Will someone that spent a couple hundred thousand on education cut their salary in half? OR is it more likely that they will act as a sort of union with rules to protect the industry?? I would bet you that they would have industry minimums in no time at all even if gov't was completely out of the picture.

Even my industry does this. Those with a license must behave a certain way. The industry also ensures that certain things can only be purchased through someone with a license. Some manufacturers are not allowed to sell their product directly to the consumer. It happens all the time & already does in the healthcare industry.

Maybe he's talking about the things that they buy. I think Haz posted a thread on that recently. Lots of waste.

Napolitano has discussed that before. He is very against corporatism.

Sounds like you can't make decisions for yourself and need someone to make them for you.

They likened the passing of this to medicare and social security two failed and bankrupt programs. Now there is another government program for people to be dependent on(assuming it passes the senate).

In a way I hope it does pass along with the cap and tax bill. The sooner we can get to the collapse and rebuild the better. But things can always get worse too.