Advice and Support from Thousands of Users Just Like You

Politics Left? Right? Liberal? Conservative? How does politics and the social values you hold affect dating and relationships?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
independentthinker's Avatar

Newbie

Join Date: Oct 2009

Posts: 31

See profile

saulgoode wrote :
Why do the Liberals want to put healthcare under federal supervision?

Why do the Conservatives oppose it so much?

There aren't ethical reasons, don't argue that. If you think anything in our federal gov't is done out of "goodwill," then you are naive.

The Federal Liberals want the ~control~ and the ~income~ from healthcare in the US, crossing state boundaries, and it has always been one of their top priorities at the Federal Level (NOT always at the State Level, mind you, though it weighs heavily in our Far East and Far West blue states).

Why do the Federal Liberals want healthcare so much, and why is it the first thing they go after every time they gain control of congress?

Why is controlling our healthcare industry at the heart of the Liberal charter?


- Saul
Is this question a joke?

What is a "Federal Liberal"?

Are you advocating de-regulation of the healthcare and insurance industries? Do you view them as one and the same?

Actually, I think I would love to see all government medical programs abolished, and all rules governing insurance industry practices rescinded. It would be the fastest way to get single-payer in this country if every person had to do battle against the insurance and healthcare industries alone, with no case law and the courts to turn to when they get screwed.
- November 2nd, 2009, 06:32 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#11   Reply With Quote
dito's Avatar

Veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 1,150

See profile

- November 3rd, 2009, 07:35 am
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#12   Reply With Quote
saulgoode's Avatar

Unregistered

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 1,310

See profile

Statistically, only 10% of the people in this country lack healthcare.

So that means 90% of us are covered.

Not bad, eh.

If you're not covered, there are already low-cost options, or you can find a job that offers healthcare coverage. Badabing.

I just find it baffling that the left wants healthcare so bad, that they're willing to stake both Clinton's and Obama's presidencies on the matter.

Really, who cares?

Regulation? That doesn't work. There are always means to get around regulation.

What you need is competition. That works. Allow a Georgia insurance agency to cover Texans, and you'll see prices drop dramatically.

What you need is to protect our doctors from plaintiff lawyers. Reduce the lawsuit abuse, and you'll see a large percentage of your costs removed.

Or, even better, do away with insurance entirely. If you cannot afford treatment, you don't get treatment. Hell, it's not a ~right~ that's guaranteed to anyone who can cross our border.

The bottomest bottom-line end-of-the-line be-all problem is that people are demanding treatment they cannot afford, and suing doctors for money they don't have, and we're running out of other people's money.

And now we have an entire party dedicated to tapping into our Federal Reserve to keep doling out other people's money for things someone else cannot afford, and it just baffles me: Why?

Votes? Is that all there is to this? Get more votes?

What is the bottomest motivation for the liberals? Why do they want to do this so very, very, very very badly?


- Saul
- November 3rd, 2009, 10:20 am
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#13   Reply With Quote
bigfincat's Avatar

Virtuoso

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 2,786

See profile

dito wrote :
I agree with Schiff that we'd be better off with insurance being out of the hands of employers. That is the biggest thing that I want to see from reform. Without that occurring I will likely not be a fan of the reform that we initially get.

I do worry that the more that the public resists reform the less reform we will get resulting in a far less effective reform. Small steps only yield restricted benefits.

Many moderate to conservative proposals for reform only offer a short-term aids that will have to be manipulated every couple of years because costs will still be rolling out of control.

I do want to see that system blown up & restructured. A minor shift will not produce a noticable difference & will not raise quality of life.

I disagree with Schiff that the government is the cause of the 10-20% yearly increases in costs.

Government may be involved but not as much as the nature of Corporatism.

I don't believe that costs would go down much due to interstate competition. First off the costs of living will not change so I would always pay more than someone in a more rural area. It costs more to live where I live, costs for healthcare providers are still going to be the same. Secondly, heads of the insurance industry would not allow companies to significantly lower the costs of premiums because that would be a really bad long-term approach & would lower overall profits industrywide. It is naive to think that those large insurance companies would not work together to crush those that tried to undercut them. They would exert extreme power to do so. Every industry works under certain guidelines across the board to ensure success.

Doctors do the same thing. They do not undercut each other very much as most procedures have a going rate & shopping around is not very advantageous. I do believe that MD's would advertise their costs much more often if they actually offered a greatly reduced service.
- November 4th, 2009, 05:54 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#14   Reply With Quote
D_Lion's Avatar

D_Lion - Ladies want to wring my neck - you have been warned!

Sage

Join Date: Aug 2008

Posts: 10,914

See profile

Still waiting for the intelligent answers!

UK spends half what US spends with identical outcomes.

Average US household spends about $15 k.

Therefore UK-style reform = $7,500 pay increase for you.
- November 4th, 2009, 06:44 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#15   Reply With Quote

ADVERTISEMENT

dito's Avatar

Veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 1,150

See profile

bigfincat wrote :
I agree with Schiff that we'd be better off with insurance being out of the hands of employers. That is the biggest thing that I want to see from reform. Without that occurring I will likely not be a fan of the reform that we initially get.

I do worry that the more that the public resists reform the less reform we will get resulting in a far less effective reform. Small steps only yield restricted benefits.

Many moderate to conservative proposals for reform only offer a short-term aids that will have to be manipulated every couple of years because costs will still be rolling out of control.

I do want to see that system blown up & restructured. A minor shift will not produce a noticable difference & will not raise quality of life.

I disagree with Schiff that the government is the cause of the 10-20% yearly increases in costs.

Government may be involved but not as much as the nature of Corporatism.

I don't believe that costs would go down much due to interstate competition. First off the costs of living will not change so I would always pay more than someone in a more rural area. It costs more to live where I live, costs for healthcare providers are still going to be the same. Secondly, heads of the insurance industry would not allow companies to significantly lower the costs of premiums because that would be a really bad long-term approach & would lower overall profits industrywide. It is naive to think that those large insurance companies would not work together to crush those that tried to undercut them. They would exert extreme power to do so. Every industry works under certain guidelines across the board to ensure success.

Doctors do the same thing. They do not undercut each other very much as most procedures have a going rate & shopping around is not very advantageous. I do believe that MD's would advertise their costs much more often if they actually offered a greatly reduced service.
Government being involved is corporatism.

The costs would go down. People would shop for the cheapest. Companies and doctors will want more business and more money. So the cheaper they can offer their service the more money they can make.
- November 4th, 2009, 07:10 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#16   Reply With Quote
dito's Avatar

Veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 1,150

See profile

D_Lion wrote :
Still waiting for the intelligent answers!

UK spends half what US spends with identical outcomes.

Average US household spends about $15 k.

Therefore UK-style reform = $7,500 pay increase for you.

- November 4th, 2009, 07:11 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#17   Reply With Quote
saulgoode's Avatar

Unregistered

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 1,310

See profile

D_Lion wrote :
Still waiting for the intelligent answers!

UK spends half what US spends with identical outcomes.

Average US household spends about $15 k.

Therefore UK-style reform = $7,500 pay increase for you.
You spend $15,000 on healthcare?

I pay $50/mo per person on mine. My employer docs me about $100/mo on top of that.

I don't come out nearly to $15,000, even for a family of 4.

Why not?

Because I keep high, oh-sh.t style deductibles, and I limit my time seeking care.

In other words, I DO NOT seek treatment I neither need, nor can afford.

That's the problem. Those videos Dito put up say the same thing.

We're buying too many things we cannot afford. Quit being a nation of whiners, pay for your cr.ap, make the states stop monopolizing the industry, take away the fed gov't altogether, and let's be done with this problem.

I don't see what the big deal is, or why it's so complicated.


- Saul
- November 4th, 2009, 07:30 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#18   Reply With Quote
bigfincat's Avatar

Virtuoso

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 2,786

See profile

I would estimate that families here are spending about 6K on premiums per year. Their employers match that.

Then with co-pays & scripts it depends on the family & their needs. It is likely a couple hundred per month.

Some may pay $15 per visit & script but many have increased to $25 apiece.
- November 4th, 2009, 08:46 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#19   Reply With Quote
bigfincat's Avatar

Virtuoso

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 2,786

See profile

dito wrote :
Government being involved is corporatism.

The costs would go down. People would shop for the cheapest. Companies and doctors will want more business and more money. So the cheaper they can offer their service the more money they can make.
With Connecticut having one of the largest concentration of insurance companies in the country, the competition has very little effect. You can go out & shop around but will find little difference with each charging more yearly for less service.

I think that you overestimate the willingness for any company to reduce its pricing. Even with growing profits it is very rare for a company to not accept the extra profit. They often do not pass savings onto their clients.

You say that government involvement is corporatism but that would not equate to a change at all then. Health care is that now & would be that after any bill is passed.

I can also tell you that a doctor wanting more patients is NOT a good thing in health care. It is very bad as I have seen offices that will never turn down new patients.

They cannot handle the volume that they currently have & the only thing that more volume accomplishes is less care.

I have seen them take on an obscene amount of newcomers while being unwilling to spend the money to hire more people to handle such volume. They don't mind if their is no personal involvement with the patient or if the see you for 5 minutes & never return your phone calls.
- November 4th, 2009, 09:05 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#20   Reply With Quote

ADVERTISEMENT

Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question: Why is socialism bad? The1Tomcat Politics 268 November 18th, 2009 10:20 am
Deal breakers or no? Shepherd3597 Relationships 9 September 23rd, 2009 06:13 pm
Vote For Your Choice On Healthcare DennisWisconsin Everything Else 0 August 19th, 2009 11:47 pm

Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“Or get screwed by the government when you work for them.... ” – shoopthedoop

Join the “Gimme some Friday Night Roll Call !!!!” discussion

“It is probably better to not say that you are committment minded. Some women don't know how to take that because it is not what they are used to or it doesn't fit the image of the guy in their ... ” – bigfincat

Join the “She does not want to be with me because I'm "too nice".” discussion

“Online dating is not a fast process. Many, many people will be losers, flakes, and worse. It matters a lot that you learn how to make a good profile and photos, and give it time - while keeping ... ” – D_Lion

Join the “What am I doing wrong?” discussion

“They are: A: Being nice B: Acknowledging you, that they received your close message.” – melcalrrt

Join the “Re-opening a Closed Match” discussion

“I have no idea if I am type A or type B. But whatever, I like girls that are a bit opposite to me though they don't much care for me. Oh wait pretty much no one cares much for me ” – Gr8Guyn2008

Join the “Are you type "A" or "B"? Which works best for you?” discussion

“OK. What I see is maybe your being quiet and shy is working against you. You don't feel comfortable approaching a woman you don't know. Who does, really? I'm sure any man here can tell you ... ” – j0hn8andy

Join the “Dating: Why Age is an Asset” discussion

“That's why I use the "politically correct" can't stand. It weeds out the uber-easily offended... ” – shoopthedoop

Join the “Dating and insecurity” discussion

“ ... And rejection seems to be more the norm, whether you are disabled or not. (Otherwise, why are all us fantastic people still single?) My dating experience has taught me resiliency amidst ... ” – Gr8Guyn2008

Join the “advice/encouragement on dealing with some fears” discussion



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:10 pm.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0