How did we come to this ?


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hazmat is offline hazmat Post #1  October 28,2009, 6:39pm
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As a nation, how did we get to the point where a 15yo high school girl can be beaten, robbed, and gang raped at her homecoming dance by at least 5 young men, with at least 15 others watching, laughing, and videotaping the crime over 2 hours, with no one attempting to help or call for help ?

How can we even begin to solve things like the economy, health care, and the environment if our moral compass is so flawed ?

It's sickening. We have to be better than this.
 
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brneyedangel is offline brneyedangel — Advice Member-Moderator Post #2  October 28,2009, 7:31pm
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Apparently she had been harassed in school in the past, as well. From what I've read, she went to have a drink with a friend in the courtyard before this happened, and she was found intoxicated and semi-conscious in the courtyard by police two hours after the assault started.

I work with teenagers, and I can't imagine this happening at my school or at any of our associate schools. What a great friend to take her right into the lion's den, too, and I say this because it makes me wonder if her friend knew what was going to happen since it took TWO HOURS for the cops to show.

But to your question: How did we come to this? Personally I think it all comes down to accountability and responsibility and the fact that no one seems to want to deal with either anymore. Toss in a lack of desire to deal with honesty for flavoring, and you have this. If people don't want to be accountable or take responsibility for their actions, then after awhile it becomes acceptable, whether it's right or wrong, truth or lie. Kids learn the basics like this from their parents, not at school, and quite frankly there is a great deal of turmoil about what schools should and shouldn't teach. I spend 9 weeks on Ethics in one of my classes, and in some states that just wouldn't be allowed because the insinuation would be that I was trying to impose my moral code on other people's children, which isn't the case, but that's the reality.

That said, I'd like to know why this courtyard was accessible to the students and where the supervision was located. Dances here have one entrance/exit. Off duty police officers are always present. Administration and staff are, as well, and they are assigned to specific locations. All security cameras are on, and sections of the school that students aren't permitted in are locked down. You can't prevent everything, but no one checked this area for two hours?? I'm not putting the blame on the administration, mind you, because this is a heinous crime that they did not commit, but they do have some responsibility here. But something wasn't right with these kids to begin with (yeah, I'm stating the obvious) to even think about, let alone do, something like this.

You have to have a license to fish, drive, get married, teach, practice medicine, keep pets, and many other things, yet anyone can reproduce and "raise" kids who won't think twice about doing something like this. I'm not seriously implying a license to reproduce, mind you, but parenting is not as easy as having sex, popping the kid out, and putting it in front of the TV/computer/gaming console until said child rebels/moves out. But anything more would require responsibility, accountability, and some harsh, cold honesty. We can't have that, can we? That's how we came to crimes like these--and even worse--that are popping up in the news with more and more frequency.
 
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jsbach is offline jsbach Post #3  October 28,2009, 8:50pm
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hazmat wrote :
As a nation, how did we get to the point where a 15yo high school girl can be beaten, robbed, and gang raped at her homecoming dance by at least 5 young men, with at least 15 others watching, laughing, and videotaping the crime over 2 hours, with no one attempting to help or call for help ?

How can we even begin to solve things like the economy, health care, and the environment if our moral compass is so flawed ?

It's sickening. We have to be better than this.
Haz, you are right, of course.
We could over complicate the causes for this kind of abhorrent behavior, but what you said about a flawed moral compass is excellent.

Disintegration of the family unit, which is the heart of personal accountability, is a major factor. At least to me. Destroy the family unit and you will have destroyed a nation.

Support the family unit, respect it. This has nothing to do with our own marital status. It has everything to do with the future of our country.
 
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lil_lamb is offline lil_lamb Post #4  October 28,2009, 10:41pm
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if you look back in recorded history, you will find that humanity has been absolutely barbaric the whole time. and for most of that time, individuals have led very insular lives. i think we had a brief breakout and now a return to that insularity. oh, we may live in a megaopolis, but we stay in-tribe. and those not of the tribe are never recognised as human.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #5  October 29,2009, 6:39am
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It's amazing. I liked that one show called what would you do? Where they would stage scenes and see who would stand up for others. But there wasn't that many. It's pretty sad.
 
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hazmat is offline hazmat Post #6  October 29,2009, 9:19am
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dito wrote :
It's amazing. I liked that one show called what would you do? Where they would stage scenes and see who would stand up for others. But there wasn't that many. It's pretty sad.

Time magazine had a similar article/study about "what would you do ?" in a stressful/emergency/disaster situation. The consensus was that 10% would panic until beaten down, 80% would do nothing until told to do so, (including eyewitness accounts of people sitting in chairs in disbelief until flames overtook them) and the final 10% would actively move to save themselves or others.

If someone didn't want to stand up for this girl and possibly become a target themselves, maybe that can be understood. (not by me) I wouldn't think calling 911 would be overly stressful though.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #7  October 29,2009, 9:26pm
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Calling the cops would be the best option. I would rather shoot the people raping the girl. But the prison time wouldn't be worth it.
 
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Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #8  October 30,2009, 7:32am

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God folks clearly you don't understand psychology. It is actually human nature to look to others for guidence in a situation. If no one is reacting your mind assumes there is nothing to react to. It is sad but true. Chances are in the same situation you would react the same way. Doesn't make you a bad person, just human.

If you are ever in a situation where you are being attacked with witnesses use clear sentences. No help me or anything you would see on TV. I AM BEING RAPED!!111 CALL THE POLICE!!! Try to make eye contact with the witnesses. This doesn't mean that those that are attacked are at fault if they don't do this. Many don't know that this is human nature.

Me, I am so annoying I always get in the middle of stuff. Easier to apologize for a misunderstanding than comfort someone who has just been through hell that could have been avoided if you took action. You would be amazed how many kids on campus joke about attacks. I just ask is there something going on here. They usually stop and laugh a bit and say nope we are just joking around. Have fun. How easy would it be to pass a group of kids and think, aww they are just joking, I should stop bugging them. Human nature.
 
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brneyedangel is offline brneyedangel — Advice Member-Moderator Post #9  October 30,2009, 8:31am
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Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
God folks clearly you don't understand psychology. It is actually human nature to look to others for guidence in a situation. If no one is reacting your mind assumes there is nothing to react to. It is sad but true. Chances are in the same situation you would react the same way. Doesn't make you a bad person, just human.

If you are ever in a situation where you are being attacked with witnesses use clear sentences. No help me or anything you would see on TV. I AM BEING RAPED!!111 CALL THE POLICE!!! Try to make eye contact with the witnesses. This doesn't mean that those that are attacked are at fault if they don't do this. Many don't know that this is human nature.

Me, I am so annoying I always get in the middle of stuff. Easier to apologize for a misunderstanding than comfort someone who has just been through hell that could have been avoided if you took action. You would be amazed how many kids on campus joke about attacks. I just ask is there something going on here. They usually stop and laugh a bit and say nope we are just joking around. Have fun. How easy would it be to pass a group of kids and think, aww they are just joking, I should stop bugging them. Human nature.
They're having fun?? She was intoxicated so how is she going to scream for help clearly? And trust me, you aren't thinking this way when you are being assaulted, no matter what the self-defense gurus or psychology books say. It isn't human nature to stand and watch someone get raped, and kids today have no problem calling each other on their lies and BS...unless, of course, they're involved somehow. And yes, I'm very well aware of how I'll react in this situation as I am sure others are, as well. I WILL call 911, not because it's my job, but because it's the right thing to do and I'm not an ostrich. Careful with those blanket statements when you do not know the road we've traveled, please.
 
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Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #10  October 30,2009, 8:54am

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brneyedangel wrote :
They're having fun?? She was intoxicated so how is she going to scream for help clearly? And trust me, you aren't thinking this way when you are being assaulted, no matter what the self-defense gurus or psychology books say. It isn't human nature to stand and watch someone get raped, and kids today have no problem calling each other on their lies and BS...unless, of course, they're involved somehow. And yes, I'm very well aware of how I'll react in this situation as I am sure others are, as well. I WILL call 911, not because it's my job, but because it's the right thing to do and I'm not an ostrich. Careful with those blanket statements when you do not know the road we've traveled, please.
I am only going to the psychology of why people ignore people being attacked. Same reason why we ignore people having medical emergencies, how about people on the side of the road. Murder and rape are the extremes of this but we by nature ignore what everyone else is ignoring. I can't remember the case but there was a woman that was stabbed by her ex 18 times over 2 hours. He even left and came back. Her neighbors ignored her screams for help didn't check on her when he left. I am sorry you don't get it but this is human nature. It is wrong but it is how we are wired.You speak of walking that road. Have you ever seen someone attacked and called the police? If you have good for you but you are not in the majority nor am I. I walked up on a circle of people around a women being beaten by her boyfriend. They were just staring. I said what the hell is going on and walked toward the couple. Then the guys stepped up. Sorry but I guess you have never seen this in action. She didn't press charges either, said he was having a bad day. Yeah, beating someone up in a stip mall that's a bad day. I just feel like if more people are aware that this is a problem then maybe people will take action if they see someone being attacked. The only reason I took action in the above case was I knew why no one was doing anything. Maybe you should try traveling a couple new roads. It is easy to condem people when you wern't there. Hindsight is always 20/20.
 
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