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meri75 wrote :
No, I didn't know that - how interesting. We went to Pearl Harbour, and after that I noticed many shop fronts had Japanese characters. I did find that a little unusual - we don't see a lot of non-English lettering except for in concentrated areas, such as Chinatown, here.
You don't really see it much in the US either.

meri75 wrote :
Yes, your viewpoint is entirely possible. I think that sometimes people say 'Christian' when perhaps they mean they believe in God as opposed to Buddha or another Deity?
Possible, I don't know the statistics on that one though. And I'm sure if there were some it would greatly vary depending on who gave the poll. One thing you have to look at though is that the Catholic Church claims me as a member because I was baptised with them. Even though I would never claim them on any poll. Gotta wonder how many other people are in the same boat as me and how much that bumps up a false number for the church.

meri75 wrote :
Hmm - do you reckon it is likely the area I see mentioned here as the 'Bible belt' (never heard that phrase before I joined EHA) would have a higher rate of people regularly attending church and therefore lift up the Nation's average as a result?
Well I'm sure attendance in New York and Los Angeles don't help the numbers out any. I lived in the bible belt for quite some time and much of my family still does. Only the older generations of my family regularly attend church and insist on praying before meals. There is a rise in "non-religious" in the US for people under 30. Hopefully the trend continues.

My mom always made my dad, my sisters and myself go to church on the holidays. My dad finally found a way out of it (btw, he was raised in a very strict Christian home) around the time I was 15 or so and luckily he felt pity for me and found reasons for me to get out of it. My mom always tried to make deals with me, "Go to bible school or get a job." I weasled my way out of that (with help from my dad) and found a more acceptable, "sports or get a job". So I was raised, for the most part, around Christian (Catholic) values and teachings. It has never been the teachings or morals that I have had a problem with. I have always had a problem with the dogma and hypocrisy of it all. I just never wanted to be associated with most the people in the church because of their pure disrespect for the teachings of the bible/Jesus. (In my hometown, most of the gossip started around 2 steps after you left church.)

But I did enjoy going to church and hearing the stories though, when we had a good priest that is.

Anyway, too much about me.
- October 22nd, 2009, 07:28 am
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dwreese182 wrote :
I apologize for my last post, I went on the attack a little too much and got off the subject.

It was not that long ago the US has had problem with gender equality...and some would argue it is still a major issue today in the US. While I think that it is a horrible thing to hold someone down because of the race, gender, religion, ethnicity or age, it is ultimately up to the citizens and local government to fix their own issues.

The West has given the most freedom of all...and and gender "inequalities" now and in the past don't compare to the serious gender inequalities in other countries where women *truly* have no rights.

As an American woman, I honestly do *not* feel curtailed at all...and am very glad I live in a country that has made it so.


I agree this is not a very compassionate thing to do and is very appalling. But lets look at some statistics. Worldwide there are an estimated 5000 victims of honor-keelings. This includes both men and women, because honor-keelings do not just happen to women. I'm not trying to downscale the problem because even if there was just one murder in the world annually that would be one to many.

Even more shocking is that a poll in Qatar, a fairly liberal muslim country (compared to surrounding countries), said that 42 percent of the women feel that domestic abuse is acceptable. This is a cultural phenominon, once more women in the Middle East feel this is unnacceptable it will start to become a hot topic in the region. Just as in the US, the people being abused or the minority opinion must stand up for itself before anything will be done.

I do not agree with how women are treated in the Middle East, but lets compare. In the US, approximately 1.3 million women are assaulted by their significant other annually. Each year almost 1500 women were murdered by their significant other. And remember, that honor killing was at 5000 for the entire world, while most occur in just a handfull of countries (btw, none of which the US is currently at "war" with), . Many of these murders in the US could be considered "honor" keelings as well. It's just not a Christian term, so it's not used. Same crime, different name.

The difference is what is done in the name of Islam. All violence is wrong but don't assume the violence in the US is done by Christians...we all know that there are plenty of non Christians out there.

The other BIG difference, and this is huge...is that Islam, as a culture SUPPORTS the honor killings while our culture does NOT support violence towards women. Big huge difference...world's apart. The fact that their governments and mosques feel this is OK is a huge red flag.

I am not sure you are aware of how many Christians throughout the world are being attacked right now.

I am not Christian at all...but I have read about it. And Christians come in all races and colors.

BTW, I am NOT from the Middle East nor am I Muslim. I dont' like any religion. No problem with faith or personal beliefs, it's just the religion part I don't like.
PP
- October 22nd, 2009, 10:51 pm
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The West has given the most freedom of all...and and gender "inequalities" now and in the past don't compare to the serious gender inequalities in other countries where women *truly* have no rights.


I believe you are taking a generalist standpoint when saying this. You are referring to a few select extremely conservative countries that are generally of the Muslim faith. I also believe you are down playing some of the abuse women have been through in the US. But if you take a closer look at some of these countries you are thinking of you will find that women have more freedom than you might think.

It isn't all bleak.


In Morocco, a new family law makes it easier for women to get a divorce, keep custody of their children following a divorce, and puts restrictions on polygamy.


Two businesswomen in Saudi Arabia won election to the chamber of commerce.


Women hold about 20 percent of the seats in Iraq's national assembly and in Afghanistan's parliament--that's a higher percentage than in the U.S. Congress.


Some of the greatest gains have been made in education. In 2002-2003, over 50 percent of those students admitted to universities in Iran were women while women comprise two-thirds of the university-level students in Kuwait.


Another very encouraging sign is that a 2002 survey of social attitudes carried out in seven Arab countries by the U.S. company Zogby International, found that half of respondents considered the improvement of women's rights to be a high priority. Significantly, the firmest support for change came from Saudi Arabia, the country that needs it most.

While I won't argue that more improvements need to made for woman's rights in the Middle East, I will say that some of these places are improving greatly and are on the right path. You simply can't expect change overnight, it didn't happen in the US and it won't happen anywhere else. Most people who believe in this idea that women are treated worse than house pets get this idea from one country, Saudi Arabia.

On the flip side, one of the worst countries to be a woman in is the Democratic Republic of Congo. Which 80 percent of the population is Christian.
In eastern Congo, the prevalence and intensity of rape and other sexual violence is described as the worst in the world. A 2006 report by the African Association for the Defence of Human Rights prepared for that committee provides a broad overview of issues confronting women in the DRC in law and in daily life. They have been raped during warfare and kept as slaves for soldiers. When the women are released, most killed themselves or checked into a hospital where they would die.

So is this rogue Christian nation a basis of opinion for all Christians? Of course not!

Nepal is also a very brutal country for women to live in. Early marriage and childbirth exhaust the country's malnourished women, and one in 24 will die in pregnancy or childbirth. Daughters who aren't married off may be sold to traffickers before they reach their teens. Widows face extreme abuse and discrimination if they're labeled bokshi, meaning witches. A low-level civil war between government and Maoist rebels has forced rural women into guerrilla groups.

They are 95.5 percent Hindu. Does this mean that Hinduism is a horrible religion that is oppressive towards women? Again, of course not!

My point is that there will always be people who will twist religious text (or completely ignore them) to control people. In the Quran, much like the Bible, women are held in both a positive and negative light, depending on the circumstance. I can quote some pretty nasty scripture from the bible concerning women, so before you point fingures you better check your closet.


The difference is what is done in the name of Islam. All violence is wrong but don't assume the violence in the US is done by Christians...we all know that there are plenty of non Christians out there.


Again, this is you generalizing. "Middle East bad, US perfect."


The other BIG difference, and this is huge...is that Islam, as a culture SUPPORTS the honor killings while our culture does NOT support violence towards women. Big huge difference...world's apart. The fact that their governments and mosques feel this is OK is a huge red flag.


Covered this one. And again, you are basing an opinion off of a minority view in the middle east. Most countries do not follow the Wahhabi traditions. I'm sure you can name several different religions within Christianity (Catholic, Protestant, Mormon), how many can you name in Islam without google? There are about as many interpretations of the Quran as there are of the Bible. Get my point?


I am not sure you are aware of how many Christians throughout the world are being attacked right now.


Do what? Christians under the attack by Muslims? Sorry, that is just not the case. Most Muslims are fighting amongst themselves. Sunni and Shiite have been fighting for centuries. Not to mention the Christian population in Baghdad, some 250,000, are rarely targeted. This "Christian vs Muslim" idea comes from the West. While a few extremists have called Jihad on the West, this is by far a minority.



I am not Christian at all...but I have read about it. And Christians come in all races and colors.


You are not Christian? You sure could have fooled me. What does Christians coming in "all races and colors" have to do with anything? Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, even Rastas comes in all races and colors. Has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I think you need to do more reading on other religions, not just Christians.

- October 23rd, 2009, 05:31 am
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I love it when people just dismiss what you say as "generalist" when it's generally true!

Isn't that what we are after, what is "generally" true?

There are always exceptions...in this case I am not sure but I would much rather live in the West...where it is REALLY true that freedom is more cherished than Muslim countries.

dwreese182 wrote :
[/color]

I believe you are taking a generalist standpoint when saying this. You are referring to a few select extremely conservative countries that are generally of the Muslim faith. I also believe you are down playing some of the abuse women have been through in the US. But if you take a closer look at some of these countries you are thinking of you will find that women have more freedom than you might think.

It isn't all bleak.

Any abuse in the US is not due to religion it's due to dysfunctional living. Also, we don't SUPPORT abuse where many in Islam think it's OK. Big difference.


In Morocco, a new family law makes it easier for women to get a divorce, keep custody of their children following a divorce, and puts restrictions on polygamy.


Two businesswomen in Saudi Arabia won election to the chamber of commerce.


Women hold about 20 percent of the seats in Iraq's national assembly and in Afghanistan's parliament--that's a higher percentage than in the U.S. Congress.


Some of the greatest gains have been made in education. In 2002-2003, over 50 percent of those students admitted to universities in Iran were women while women comprise two-thirds of the university-level students in Kuwait.


Another very encouraging sign is that a 2002 survey of social attitudes carried out in seven Arab countries by the U.S. company Zogby International, found that half of respondents considered the improvement of women's rights to be a high priority. Significantly, the firmest support for change came from Saudi Arabia, the country that needs it most.

While I won't argue that more improvements need to made for woman's rights in the Middle East, I will say that some of these places are improving greatly and are on the right path. You simply can't expect change overnight, it didn't happen in the US and it won't happen anywhere else. Most people who believe in this idea that women are treated worse than house pets get this idea from one country, Saudi Arabia.

Who said things were going to change overnight? But the West still has more freedoms here and for much longer. Isn't there credit for that?

On the flip side, one of the worst countries to be a woman in is the Democratic Republic of Congo. Which 80 percent of the population is Christian.
In eastern Congo, the prevalence and intensity of rape and other sexual violence is described as the worst in the world. A 2006 report by the African Association for the Defence of Human Rights prepared for that committee provides a broad overview of issues confronting women in the DRC in law and in daily life. They have been raped during warfare and kept as slaves for soldiers. When the women are released, most killed themselves or checked into a hospital where they would die.

So is this rogue Christian nation a basis of opinion for all Christians? Of course not!

Nepal is also a very brutal country for women to live in. Early marriage and childbirth exhaust the country's malnourished women, and one in 24 will die in pregnancy or childbirth. Daughters who aren't married off may be sold to traffickers before they reach their teens. Widows face extreme abuse and discrimination if they're labeled bokshi, meaning witches. A low-level civil war between government and Maoist rebels has forced rural women into guerrilla groups.

They are 95.5 percent Hindu. Does this mean that Hinduism is a horrible religion that is oppressive towards women? Again, of course not!

It depends. Sometimes the backwardness comes from religion sometimes culture. I happen to like Hinduism very much and from what I know about the religion, there is no proscribed keeping the women down at all.

My point is that there will always be people who will twist religious text (or completely ignore them) to control people. In the Quran, much like the Bible, women are held in both a positive and negative light, depending on the circumstance. I can quote some pretty nasty scripture from the bible concerning women, so before you point fingures you better check your closet.

Oh Brother. We all know that humans have been twisting relgion to suit their own selves for ages. Duh.

[/color]

Again, this is you generalizing. "Middle East bad, US perfect."

No, I never said this or even thought this. Ever.

[/color]

Covered this one. And again, you are basing an opinion off of a minority view in the middle east. Most countries do not follow the Wahhabi traditions. I'm sure you can name several different religions within Christianity (Catholic, Protestant, Mormon), how many can you name in Islam without google? There are about as many interpretations of the Quran as there are of the Bible. Get my point?

[/color]

Do what? Christians under the attack by Muslims? Sorry, that is just not the case. Most Muslims are fighting amongst themselves. Sunni and Shiite have been fighting for centuries. Not to mention the Christian population in Baghdad, some 250,000, are rarely targeted. This "Christian vs Muslim" idea comes from the West. While a few extremists have called Jihad on the West, this is by far a minority.

Actually, this is true. Christians ARE under attack thru out the world from less tolerant religions. Yes, this is true. Look it up. Also, isn't it true that in Islamic countries no other religion is allowed? I can look this up tomorrow if you like.. Too late tonight.



You are not Christian? You sure could have fooled me. What does Christians coming in "all races and colors" have to do with anything? Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, even Rastas comes in all races and colors. Has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I think you need to do more reading on other religions, not just Christians.

I am truly not Christian. If you must know I study yogic philosophy which respects the truth in all religions. That is one of the reasons I like Hinduism so much...because I have come across it in my studies. I just happen to have read a lot about religion in Islamic countries and the plight of Christianity througout the world.

[/color]
- November 9th, 2009, 11:44 pm
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Here's my rant (and I'm an Atheist)

Islam, that most shameful of religions, must be confronted for what it truly represents---destruction and terror; it's intolerance should not be tolerated by right-thinking people. Until we categorically reject the silly and obtuse mantra that Islam is a "religion of peace" and ridicule its inanities; castigate it's adherents; and judge its primitive and corrupted morality, we will continue to be subjected to it's horrors and devestations. Islam, until it experiences an enligtenment, one similiar to what the Christian West experienced centuries ago, will continue to be the enemy of progress and, more importantly, civilization. In short, to use the vernacular, we need to pull our collective heads out of our politically correct backsides and suggest, nay, demand that Islam be reformed to reflect modern 21st century attitudes of the more enlightened societies of the world, or we are doomed. Read More
- November 10th, 2009, 11:15 am
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I have a book called The Book of Golden Deeds, you wont find it any where except by chance, it is well ove 100 years old, perhaps as much as 150. It is about unselface acts that people have done. There is only one culture that the auther could ot find any golden deeds from and that was the child sacrficing ones of the Mid East. The point is that no one does good always and no one does eval always. That is a fact of life. The motives verry, some do good things out of pitty, some out of love, some to impress men and some to impress there God/ god, to win favior with god. some do it becuse they are not ashamed not to. If you receive the blessing then do you realy care why?
As for religan there are in every one thoes who clam a religon for convences, the realy do not accept the tennament of that faith but say they do, in some places it keeps them alive, in others it is a tool to make money. Every religon has been used as an excuse for conquest, in the case of Christanity aganst the instructions in the Holy Book. The truth seem to yo can not judge a religon by the behavior of the abherrers, you are shore to get it wrong.
- November 13th, 2009, 02:06 am
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Here's Islam, marching proudly into the 21st century! It would be hysterical if it weren't so sad. Good Grief!

- November 13th, 2009, 09:32 am
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