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zal zal is offline
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hazmat wrote :
This is copied in it's entirety from Fox news. It will show you better than any argument why government run health care will doom this country.

Washington
From wheelchairs and walkers to orthopedic shoes and needles, Medicare buys tens of thousands of products every day for elderly Americans. And as the single largest buyer of medical products, you'd think it would at least get a volume discount.
But it doesn't. In fact, Medicare doesn't even get the best price.
According to their own auditors, Medicare knowingly overpays for almost everything it buys. Examples include:
-- $7,215 to rent an oxygen concentrator, when the purchase price is $600.
-- $4,018 for a standard wheelchair, while the private sector pays $1,048.
-- $1,825 for a hospital bed, compared to an Internet price of $1,071.
-- $3,335 for a respiratory pump, versus an advertised price of $1,987.
-- $82 for a diabetic supply kit, instead of a $47 price on the Web.


Last year, the Health and Human Services Department tried to replace its archaic fixed-price fee schedule for 10 commonly purchased products with a competitive bidding program in 10 cities. The department said the program could save Medicare $125 million in a single year, or $1 billion if adopted nationwide. But Congress stepped in to stop it.
"There were products that we had as much as 75 percent savings. The average was 29 percent," said Mike Leavitt, the former HHS secretary who oversaw the program.
"It would have saved billions if we could've actually implemented it, but Congress deferred it. In Washington speak, that means we put it off forever," he said.
Leavitt blames Congressmen Pete Stark (D-Calif.) and Dave Camp (R-Mich.) for introducing legislation that terminated the contracts and postponed the program for 18 months. Leavitt says the congressional intervention helps explain why many are suspicious of claims that Washington can cut enough waste to actually pay for health care reform, as President Obama told a joint session of Congress last month.
"Reducing the waste and inefficiency in Medicare and Medicaid will pay for most of this plan," Leavitt said.
"The problem here is one man's waste is another man's living, and whenever there is an effort put forward to actually make an efficiency, someone goes on the offensive and hires lobbyists and does what they can to constrain Congress from doing it," Leavitt said.
According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the health care industry is currently spending $2 million a day lobbying Congress. Leavitt's pilot program died after small business suppliers claimed it would have put them out of business. Eventually, industry agreed to help pay the cost of terminated contracts that Medicare had already negotiated.
Industry officials argued the new system would unfairly disqualify some suppliers, and others with little experience would get the business, causing a decline in quality and service.
Hazmat,

Can you provide a link to the article? I deal with Medicare constantly and it has many many problems, but overpaying for services is typically not one of them. I'd like to verify some of the claims in the article. Admittedly, my experience with Medicare is limited to its reimbursement for medical services for which it drastically underpays, which, of course, is the basis of the argument made in favor of a "public option" or one-payer system. (a.k.a. "socialized medicine.) What's ignored is that Medicare is bankrupt.
- October 8th, 2009, 01:42 pm
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This is not a fault of Medicare per se.

This is because Medicare is a benefit program established by congress, which gives certain enumerated benefits to certain individuals, while being supported by a tax on payrolls.

Over time, the payouts have grown, due to growth in the underlying services (health services offerings) and the consuming population exceeding growth in the paying population and the tax base.

If payrolls or workers had grown faster than beneficiaries or consumers, Medicare would be running a surplus. This is a structural problem unrelated to Medicare or government.

The bankruptcy of Medicare is a problem related to inadequate economic growth, such that there are not enough people upon which enough payroll tax is assessed, to keep pace with the promised benefits.
- October 8th, 2009, 06:37 pm
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hazmat wrote :
This is copied in it's entirety from Fox news.
And this will show me why I shouldn't even read the article :P
- October 10th, 2009, 04:25 pm
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Fox --- news oxymoron. I used to occasionally watch for the amusement value, I can no longer stand the self righteous justification for all the venom that passes for what ever. I remember when adults could disagree and still remain civil.
- October 10th, 2009, 04:47 pm
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Diann1950 wrote :
Fox --- news oxymoron. I used to occasionally watch for the amusement value, I can no longer stand the self righteous justification for all the venom that passes for what ever. I remember when adults could disagree and still remain civil.

News is news and facts are facts. I hope you're not claiming the CNN lineup is any different except in the way they tilt. Most of the personalities on each of these stations spew from the far left or right, helping nothing.

I copied the article for the facts and that's it.
- October 13th, 2009, 09:44 pm
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hazmat wrote :
News is news and facts are facts.
Facts are statements which are either true or false, in contrast with opinions. So yes, they're facts ... unfortunately that doesn't necessarily make them correct.
- October 13th, 2009, 09:54 pm
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Why would I be upset at that article? You think that companies charging the government 10 times actual value is something new? My company sells the government a 20 foot power cable (just the power CABLE, not the lugs or adapter attached to each end [those are extra]) for US $1000. It's made out of copper and rubber. Nothing special about it....other than who it is being sold to.

I have all intentions to open my own company and provide material for the US government. Of course I would be in a "free trade zone" such as Dubai so that I don't have to pay taxes to the US. would hate for my taxes to go towards purchasing overpriced equipment that comes from the lowest bidder.

The US is a cow with big whohaas (sowwi lawi forgive me). Hop on and milk that sucker for as long as possible.
- October 15th, 2009, 12:51 am
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Anyone find it disturbing that we will lose 60 BILLION dollars in Medicare/ Medicaid fraud this year. (assuming the numbers stay the same as 2007) ? To put that in perspective...We will spend 65 Billion this year on our mission in Afghanistan....
- October 16th, 2009, 08:36 am
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What is it they determine to be fraud? Can you provide me a link that shows in detail what is considered fraud and how much money is lost in each category? Is there some estimating going on or is this just the people they catch? Is some of it coming from employees within or is all of it external? I'm sure it's a little bit of both but what are the percentages? Any additional information would be wonderful. Not doubting you, I would just like to see it for myself.

And I would assume that there is much more than 65 Billion being spent in Afghanistan a year. I couldn't imagine that even being close to what's spent. Perhaps some of it is "off the record".
- October 16th, 2009, 09:53 am
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dwreese182 wrote :
What is it they determine to be fraud? Can you provide me a link that shows in detail what is considered fraud and how much money is lost in each category? Is there some estimating going on or is this just the people they catch? Is some of it coming from employees within or is all of it external? I'm sure it's a little bit of both but what are the percentages? Any additional information would be wonderful. Not doubting you, I would just like to see it for myself.

And I would assume that there is much more than 65 Billion being spent in Afghanistan a year. I couldn't imagine that even being close to what's spent. Perhaps some of it is "off the record".

I can't do links, but go to www.insurance fraud.org, Reuters AlertNet - Homepage, Texas Health Insurance, Health Insurance Quotes in Texas, Insurance Plans and that should answer any questions you have. The waste is disgusting.

Just one example...From 2000-2007 Medicare paid out 478,500 claims to dead physicians totaling 92 million dollars.

And the 65 billion for Afghanistan was quoted in this week's Newsweek in an article on VP Biden.
- October 16th, 2009, 12:36 pm
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