saulgoode is offline saulgoode Post #1  July 23,2009, 3:09pm
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Obama stirs racial passions in Harvard case - Yahoo! News

All right, a HARVARD prof starts insulting a cop with "yo-mamma!" insults, and gets arrested.

Der.

Obama says the cops acted stupidly.

Huh?

I mean, the cops showed up to protect this guys house and his property and had that been an actual break-in, that officer would've protected the guy.

So Obama, rather than saying, "No, it is NOT okay to insult a cop, to yell at him, and to disrespect a person who PUTS HIS LIFE ON THE LINE FOR ~YOU~!" instead says, "No, the cops are stupid."

I even saw one article on this today that said that some goofball said that it is not against the law to yell at and insult an officer, and in fact, the officer should be the bigger person and take it.

Geez.

Look at what this guy said:

"I think he was trying to let the majority of non-minority Americans have a sense of what it is like to a black or Latino," said Boston University professor of politics Thomas Whalen.

Whatever. If any white guy yelled at a cop and started insulting his mom, he'd go to jail, same as a black, yellow, brown, or pink-and-purple polka-dotted midget would.

And a Harvard prof, too.

"Stupid cops."
Last edited by saulgoode; July 23,2009 at 3:11pm.
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #2  July 23,2009, 3:20pm
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You're assuming that the police report is totally accurate, and that the professor's account of the incident is totally false?

I suspect the truth lies somewhere between the two. And arresting someone for disorderly conduct inside their home is a charge that will not be at all likely to stand up in court. That's not exactly smart.

As for the "yo momma" comment, anyone who has ever heard Prof. Gates on TV or in person knows that he does not speak in that style. I don't doubt that he sounded angry and that his anger may well have escalated the conflict, but I seriously doubt he made that comment in that way.
Last edited by graceventually; July 23,2009 at 3:24pm.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #3  July 23,2009, 4:01pm
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Grace ... The report indicates that he was arrested outside of his home ... The report indicates that there were quite a few witnesses ...

In either case ... If Obama will admit that he doesn't know all the facts, then he SHOUDLN'T be saying the officer acted stupidly.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #4  July 23,2009, 4:05pm
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I see this as a non-issue. A non-story.

The Sergeant made an arrest that he likely knew would not stick because he should not be verbally abused in that way.

I am assuming that the professor became infuriated when there really was no cause for it.

My guess is that he verbally abused the officer & would not cooperate with something that was very simple... & he had to go through the process of being arrested. The case is likely to be dropped which is what the Sergeant expected. When someone is raving angry it is not a bad move to bring him in to cool off. Not a big deal really.
Last edited by bigfincat; July 24,2009 at 5:36pm.
 
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j0hn8andy is offline j0hn8andy Post #5  July 23,2009, 4:18pm
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The problem I have is the President using his bully pulpit to excoriate a private citizen.

It's not the first time he's done this. And it probably won't be the last, unfortunately.
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #6  July 23,2009, 5:10pm
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Well, in the photo, he appears to be shouting, yes. Was that going to upset the cop? Yes, it probably did. But he also is being led out the door in handcuffs....which does not seem to be consistent with the report that he was arrested outside his home. He's in cuffs, on his property, and the door isn't even closed yet.

The President let his personal friendship with the professor color his remarks, obviously, and the White House was trying to settle this down a bit today. But making an arrest that won't stick wasn't very sensible, regardless; which is why the mayor of Cambridge is now conducting a review of the incident. There is not a law against raising your voice in your own home (so long as one does not make threats); and it does not constitute disorderly conduct, which as I understand it has to be public conduct. However, his anger probably escalated the conflict in this instance.

What about the larger question, however? Obviously, people are seeing this through the lens of their own experience. I'm seeing it as one more example of a still-too-common phenomenon. You know, like the time that I was driving 12 miles over the speed limit through a small town two years ago, and I got pulled over. I apologized, pointed to the clergy sticker on my car, and explained to the officer that I was on my way to see a church member at the local hospital. He was very polite and accomodating and let me go with a warning. So a couple months later I have a meeting with a Hispanic colleague of mine, who arrives 5 min. late and tells me how careful he's been about speeding - ever since he got pulled over at (and he named the same speed trap) while speeding to get to the hospital, and found himself outside with his hands against the car while the officer searched it. While he was detained, his parishioner died. He was pulled over for going 5 miles over the limit. He was wearing a clergy collar and a cross; I wasn't. Yet the same officer who took my word wouldn't take his.

I know most police do a terrific job in a brave and admirable way, but I hate stories like this. I could tell you more; it's hardly an isolated incident. It shouldn't happen.
Last edited by graceventually; July 23,2009 at 5:31pm.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #7  July 23,2009, 6:12pm
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The problem – well, a problem – with this, is that a less-prominent, less-wealthy, less … well, less visible … person may have already lost his job because he was arrested and my not have the money to adequately make himself whole from the inappropriate mistreatment.
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legend29 is offline legend29 Post #8  July 24,2009, 4:22am
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When I was married and living in an affluent, predominantly caucasian neighborhood on Long Island, my ex-husband would get pulled over in our neighborhood at least twice a week (he had a management position and had long hours that sometimes meant he would be coming home well after 9pm). Once he even had a police car pull up next to him as he was pulling into our driveway. The police officers got out of their car, unstrapped their holsters, walked up to him while he was getting out of his car in our driveway, and asked to see ID.

It was embarrassing...and the police knew it would have that effect. They left the stoopid, spinny little lights on the top of the cruiser on, which woke up our neighbors and my small children. The cops walked away with a smirk, and no apology.

I have police officers in my family, so my ex-husband knew the protocol when stopped (we call it DWB: Driving While Black). He never made any sudden movements, kept his hands to his sides (or on the wheel, in plain sight, if driving), away from his pockets, and spoke in a low tone, answering questions calmly, without showing anger (which was not easy for my ex or any man in that situation...he would be angry and sullen once he got home...took hours to calm him down and get him back to his normal low-keyed demeanor)


Now mind you...I drove that Beemer all the time and was never stopped, but I always drove on weekends during the day. It is not easy living in an affluent neighborhood, or even a moderately middle-class neighborhood, and being stopped all the time based on the color of your skin. My ex-husband does not drink (never has), was and still is a law-abiding tax-paying citizen, and has never even had so much as a scrape with the law.

In Dr. Gates case, he was highly upset and rightfully so...and he may have handled his anger badly (but how upset would you be if you were coming home from a trip with bags and had the police on your doorstep asking for ID?). But I do think the police officers overreacted....and I also think Obama made a good point, but maybe should have waited for all the facts before he commented. The officer should apologize ..and they should all sing kumbaye and get on with their lives. But we all know that will not happen......ahhhhhh...the ugliness of racism....so ugly indeed!
 
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waltercl is offline waltercl Post #9  July 24,2009, 9:46pm
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There is no doubt that racial profiling still takes place, but that does not appear to be what happened here, and it was extremely foolish for Obama to say what he did. That is typical behavior you expect from Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, and other race baiters who cry racism anytime there is a black man and a white man involved in any incident.

There was a prior report of someone attempting to break into this home while the Professor was away. A neighbor saw someone trying to force their way into the backdoor and called the police. The police show up likely knowing there was a prior incident and are on guard. They are risking their lives to protect this man's property. There's no profiling here. This has nothing to do with race. If the neighbor had seen a white man forcing his way in a backdoor they would have called the police as well.

When an officer arrives on the scene in a potentially dangerous scene that is not the time to be mouthing off to them. If you show disrespect and are disorderly then you can expect to get arrested. This professor (and Obama) should have understood the position these police officers were in and the risks they were taking. It is not uncommon for someone to be shouting like they're all innocent, and the next thing you know they're pulling out a gun. Officers have to be on high alert when responding to a call like this.

Obama says the Police Officers acted stupidly, and then he can't understand why his remarks are such a big deal. That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Officers of all different ethnicities are standing behind this officer, and police officers around the nation are speaking out. Obama is trying to walk this back, but it was a terrible mistake. You do not assume the police acted stupidly, and you don't make any comment until you know all the facts. Racial profiling is real, and prejudice is still a problem in this country, but let's not assume every incident involving blacks and whites is racist. That is not how we solve the racism problem. It just makes it worse.
 
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legend29 is offline legend29 Post #10  July 25,2009, 1:54am
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waltercl wrote :
There is no doubt that racial profiling still takes place, but that does not appear to be what happened here, and it was extremely foolish for Obama to say what he did. That is typical behavior you expect from Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, and other race baiters who cry racism anytime there is a black man and a white man involved in any incident.

There was a prior report of someone attempting to break into this home while the Professor was away. A neighbor saw someone trying to force their way into the backdoor and called the police. The police show up likely knowing there was a prior incident and are on guard. They are risking their lives to protect this man's property. There's no profiling here. This has nothing to do with race. If the neighbor had seen a white man forcing his way in a backdoor they would have called the police as well.

When an officer arrives on the scene in a potentially dangerous scene that is not the time to be mouthing off to them. If you show disrespect and are disorderly then you can expect to get arrested. This professor (and Obama) should have understood the position these police officers were in and the risks they were taking. It is not uncommon for someone to be shouting like they're all innocent, and the next thing you know they're pulling out a gun. Officers have to be on high alert when responding to a call like this.

Obama says the Police Officers acted stupidly, and then he can't understand why his remarks are such a big deal. That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Officers of all different ethnicities are standing behind this officer, and police officers around the nation are speaking out. Obama is trying to walk this back, but it was a terrible mistake. You do not assume the police acted stupidly, and you don't make any comment until you know all the facts. Racial profiling is real, and prejudice is still a problem in this country, but let's not assume every incident involving blacks and whites is racist. That is not how we solve the racism problem. It just makes it worse.

I...and many people of color...based on the last survey and remarks by prominent black folks on pundit shows last night, were very disturbed by what Obama said (the 'stupidity' remark). I would have hoped he'd have said something like "I don't have all the facts and until I do I cannot make a comment about a state issue at this time". I recognize that Dr. Gates is a close freind of his and that he now realizes he spoke in the heat of the moment, but next time I would hope for more decorum... by any President.

With that said, we do not have all of the facts, but once ID was given, it was a matter of hurt ego on the part of the police officer to still arrest him (imo). Before everyone get their skirts in a bunch, I have to also say that my brother, uncles and cousins (who are police officers/detectives/one commander) disagree with me and say they would've arrested Dr. Gates too if he were acting belligerent and rude...so trust me this is not a race issue as police officers see it...otherwise the 100 Black Men (an African-American policemen organization that monitors injustice on minorites by police) would have surely responded and gotten into the fray. They were auspiciously silent during this entire fiasco.

There was lots of Sykping/e-mails/phone calls between my family/friends/co-workers these past 3 days...and the consensus among us all is President Obama should not have commented until all the facts had been examined. Or he could have simply gave his opinion on the issue of racial profiling and began the important discussions so sorely needed in this country in regards to race.

BTW: Your comment about Sharpton is very true...but he is in the same vein of one of the best and 'baddest' race baiters of the 20th and 21st Century...Rush Limbaugh! His comments about Obama last night were unabashedly off-the-cuff (he seemed to be gleefully saying "see..I told ya a black man couldn't be President..they're gonna murder us all in our sleep!!!!"). I used to listen to his show all the time, as I listened to all the right-wing conservative radio show. But lately, he has become worse...more of a caricature...like a Sharpton. Maybe it was all those darn oxycotins that re-wired his brain, but he and Sharpton should be the best of friends because they both seem to profit off the misery of others, and make no apologies as to their strong dislike of any kind of 'meeting of the minds' among the races (how would they earn their money if not for raising political and racial discord among Americans?????). I think Limbaugh's comments may have been the catalyst that made Obama take back his crude comments, because the Limbaugh's and Sharpton's of this world love that kind of stuff....it gives them much fuel for their fires!

I always find it amusing when people say...racism is non-existent, or these incidents are not racial. Maybe not all incidents are based on race, you'd have to walk a mile in my well-heeled shoes to see just how much racism is flourishing in this country. It was amusing to listen to the talking heads discuss all sorts of racial issues last night...including the statement that "the Republican party is one of the most racist parties". I don't agree with that statement, but as a Republican I do see issues about race among some of its members. I don't take it to heart....and find it extremely ignorant to judge and entire group of people based on misconceptions, and pre-conceived notions. But people have to be stubborn and hold onto their skewed beliefs...otherwise they could not live with them selves and would have to admit there is no differences among the races, and we are all equal and entitled to the same rights under the constitution. That is a bitter pill to swallow for some folks! Some (from every facet and race of the 'race card') would rather continue to demonize and keep us all afraid of each other...(the Sharpton's/Limbaugh's)

I think we should all take a day to step back and self-reflect on just how close we came to setting this country back 400 years this past week, and breathe a sigh of relief that Obama at least has offered an olive branch..and hope that Crowley and Gates sit down and have that "beer at the White House" with President Obama after all. Like the President said, "This is a teachable moment...for us all". I agree!
Last edited by legend29; July 25,2009 at 1:58am.
 
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