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Bandmate Bandmate is offline
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neardc wrote :
Indeed! One can feel powerful here on message boards in ways that often aren't possible in the real world. And, those who feel especially powerless out in the world sometimes take that out in these sorts of venues. That is an illusory sort of power, though, fed off of anger and pain.

There are many people in real life and on these boards whose political views are very different from mine, but whom I both like and respect (just as they like and respect me). We can have a strong disagreement about an issue, and yet still look forward to chatting or meeting for dinner or whatever. Even though we have different ideas about how best to actualize them, we share important values and goals, and that gives us much more in common than our political differences might imply. If your focus, though, is always on shouting and screeching and raving on about some particular political issue or how you've been wronged by life or women/men or some group of people, you never get a chance to figure out where those points of common thought are and that's just kinda sad.

Common points ? and just what would those be...since it's so sad and all
Last edited by Bandmate; July 12th, 2009 at 07:02 pm.
- July 12th, 2009, 06:59 pm
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neardc neardc is offline
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Bandmate wrote :
Common points ? and just what would those be...since it's so sad and all
It doesn't really matter what they are, does it? They differ with different people. The point really is that we do have them and that they are a basis from which to connect in a meaningful way. I think it's important to be able to connect with others like that (the findings from research would tell us that, too; it helps us live happier and healthier lives).

An example might be some of the politcally conservative friends I've made through my troop support activities. Our politics are quite different, but we share a strong desire to support the young men and women in our military while they are a long way from home and living under difficult conditions. For them, the primary motivation may be patriotism, while for me it may be a desire to support the troops' mental health while they are away to help assure that they will be in healthier shape when they return. So, even if our reasons for coming together are different, we are deeply committed to accomplishing the same thing together. That's common ground.

I find that I share many values with these people, despite our political differences. I think that most of us want a lot of the same basic things for ourselves and our families--to be (and feel) safe, to have access to opportunities, to be able to get an education, to develop a sense of community somewhere, to have someone to love (to name a few)...

Don't you?
Last edited by neardc; July 12th, 2009 at 08:03 pm. Reason: Added an example...
- July 12th, 2009, 07:53 pm
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Wonderwoman402 wrote :
WOW! What a leap in logic! I didn't even say what ANY of my political views are and you're assuming I want to take away your freedom and property?

Some people are just antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic.
Welcome to the Politics forum on a dating/relationship advice site.

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- July 12th, 2009, 07:56 pm
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graceventually graceventually is offline
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Bandmate wrote :
and some of you don't have the ability to challenge them in any way except to tell them they're not nice and should apologize
A number of us on here have posted other points of view, possible roots of some of the antagonism, etc., but you keep coming back to the same point over and over with increasing sarcasm towards everyone. People who care about anybody but you are taking away your rights, wah, wah, etc., etc. I don't believe that for a moment.

neardc and I have both posted about where we have found common ground with conservatives through volunteer work - she in supporting our troops, and I in some church missions both in my community and in Katrina-ravaged areas. I have not found the conservatives that I know to be condescending, biting, or otherwise difficult; they are thoughtful and respectful people who care about others and we all have gotten on quite well. If your view is that you cannot get along with anyone of a different viewpoint, then I would suggest that neardc's description of this state of mind as "sad" is an apt one.

It is true that most of us want the same things: most Americans want good schools for our children and opportunities to find meaningful work, for example. We all want the country to be secure; we may just differ in the ways that we think those goals can be accomplished. When our elected officials remember that and don't demonize one another, I think that they, and we, are better off for it. That's part of why I fear that their increased isolation from one another may have a corrosive influence on them and their work.
Last edited by graceventually; July 12th, 2009 at 09:19 pm.
- July 12th, 2009, 09:13 pm
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Rand_011 Rand_011 is offline
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Bandmate ... I disagree with many of the posters political leanings on this thread ... But, I haven't seen anything political even discussed here ... Saw nothing on the economy, the war, or anything for that matter.

I was actually discussing this with someone over the weekend ... I remember a time when one didn't sling mud as the primary tactic to win an election or to sell a product. The 'other person is worse than I am' tactic was not used as heavily as the 'this is what I will do and why I am a better candidate than my opponents' tactic.

I used to listen to talk radio in the mid to late 90's ... But now, it has gone the way of the news. I have 0 interest in listening to how bad a given scenario is day in and day out.

We came to the conclusion that it would be quite gratifying if a news station came about that reports on the good things in life. eg ... Baby struggling to live defeats the struggle with medical breakthru ... Cinderalla story of high school sports team from the middle of no where wins state champions ... etc ...

Things of that nature ... That is news I would turn on and watch again ...
- July 13th, 2009, 10:01 am
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graceventually graceventually is offline
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I think you make an excellent point about mudslinging, Rand. There is too much of it.

Re: the other news stories; I have sometimes wondered if eHA would benefit from a "current events" thread, that was a little broader than the politics thread in covering the day's news. There could be discussion of the big news stories (not all of which, after all, are political) as well as of human interest stories such as you've described.
- July 13th, 2009, 11:08 am
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neardc wrote :
It doesn't really matter what they are, does it? They differ with different people. The point really is that we do have them and that they are a basis from which to connect in a meaningful way. I think it's important to be able to connect with others like that (the findings from research would tell us that, too; it helps us live happier and healthier lives).

An example might be some of the politcally conservative friends I've made through my troop support activities. Our politics are quite different, but we share a strong desire to support the young men and women in our military while they are a long way from home and living under difficult conditions. For them, the primary motivation may be patriotism, while for me it may be a desire to support the troops' mental health while they are away to help assure that they will be in healthier shape when they return. So, even if our reasons for coming together are different, we are deeply committed to accomplishing the same thing together. That's common ground.

I find that I share many values with these people, despite our political differences. I think that most of us want a lot of the same basic things for ourselves and our families--to be (and feel) safe, to have access to opportunities, to be able to get an education, to develop a sense of community somewhere, to have someone to love (to name a few)...

Don't you?

One thing that helps people live happier and healthier lives is freedom,people are happy when they get to live their own lives,keep what they earn and do what they want to with what they earn and define things like charity and benevolence for themselves....some people however are not happy unless they can exercise some control over others,if only vicariously through government,not content to use their own time and resources to supply the needs they see real or imagined..they must seek to have others forced to contribute to and be subject to their definitions of charity and benevolence and the legitimate functions of government.

The definition of "community" used to be groups of free people living together,each one free to live as they wanted,to keep what they earned and bestow on people of their own choosing,neighbors minded their own business but were there in the bad times...now we have little control freak Nazis who run around and try to tell everyone else how to live,what to eat and drink,what to think,who to like,who to dislike...with a laundry list of all the right or politically correct attitudes and perspectives..."community" has become a one word oxymoron and freedom is fast disappearing....anyone with a sense or awareness of personal freedom is beginning to feel a little atagonistic....if you want to be coddled and cuddled cradle to grave in a "community" then i guess you're happy
- July 13th, 2009, 02:59 pm
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graceventually wrote :
A number of us on here have posted other points of view, possible roots of some of the antagonism, etc., but you keep coming back to the same point over and over with increasing sarcasm towards everyone. People who care about anybody but you are taking away your rights, wah, wah, etc., etc. I don't believe that for a moment.

neardc and I have both posted about where we have found common ground with conservatives through volunteer work - she in supporting our troops, and I in some church missions both in my community and in Katrina-ravaged areas. I have not found the conservatives that I know to be condescending, biting, or otherwise difficult; they are thoughtful and respectful people who care about others and we all have gotten on quite well. If your view is that you cannot get along with anyone of a different viewpoint, then I would suggest that neardc's description of this state of mind as "sad" is an apt one.

It is true that most of us want the same things: most Americans want good schools for our children and opportunities to find meaningful work, for example. We all want the country to be secure; we may just differ in the ways that we think those goals can be accomplished. When our elected officials remember that and don't demonize one another, I think that they, and we, are better off for it. That's part of why I fear that their increased isolation from one another may have a corrosive influence on them and their work.


It's a matter of definitions and methods if i see a need and can meet it i do..i don't attempt to force others to meet it...see the difference...it's called freedom...freedom to be charitable and freedom to not be.I find it odd that you say we should be able to get along and yet because my ideas of charity,compassion and such do not agree with your's in that i beleive they are personal and each person should have the freedom to express or not express it as they choose you portray me as not caring.

I remember the "Work is a good Motivator" thread...i never once said that hungry children should not be fed...i simply said that teaching children the connection between work and living or survival was a good thing...my response was not feeling laden enough for you and others and i did not condemn the woman they way you and others did...so you see perhaps it's not possible for you to get along with those you disagree with politically and not just me
- July 13th, 2009, 03:13 pm
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Rand_011 wrote :
Bandmate ... I disagree with many of the posters political leanings on this thread ... But, I haven't seen anything political even discussed here ... Saw nothing on the economy, the war, or anything for that matter.

I was actually discussing this with someone over the weekend ... I remember a time when one didn't sling mud as the primary tactic to win an election or to sell a product. The 'other person is worse than I am' tactic was not used as heavily as the 'this is what I will do and why I am a better candidate than my opponents' tactic.

I used to listen to talk radio in the mid to late 90's ... But now, it has gone the way of the news. I have 0 interest in listening to how bad a given scenario is day in and day out.

We came to the conclusion that it would be quite gratifying if a news station came about that reports on the good things in life. eg ... Baby struggling to live defeats the struggle with medical breakthru ... Cinderalla story of high school sports team from the middle of no where wins state champions ... etc ...

Things of that nature ... That is news I would turn on and watch again ...

To sling mud used to imply that one person was slinging mud(accusations) from a mud pit covered in mud(guilt) themselves, at an innocent person...now they are all in the mud pit,most of them are covered in mud and sling mud from one side of the pit to the other with the additional aspect of those on the sidelines(voters) who can see mud on one but not the other.I already know that good things happen and are not reported however those things do not and have never determined the fate of the vast majority of people.
- July 13th, 2009, 03:21 pm
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bah, nevermind.
Last edited by Faira; July 13th, 2009 at 04:50 pm.
- July 13th, 2009, 04:34 pm
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