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waltercl wrote :
All news of this sort is viewed through whatever political prism someone chooses to use. I believe I'm in that rare minority that doesn't use a prism and just calls it like it is. For instance I felt many Republicans during the Clinton years had a case of Clinton Derangement Syndrome. He was a somewhat decent president, never as bad as his critics suggested and never as good as his admirers. I feel the same about Bush. I could offer lots of criticisms of people from both political parties. The difference between me and most of those who use political prisms is that I don't check to see what political party someone is from before I decide whether what they did is good or bad.

So here is some straight truth about Palin. When she burst on the scene she was articulate, attractive, and well-liked. This was an immediate threat to the left because they want to perpetuate the image that Republicans and conservatives in particular are only representative of old white men. Also Palin showed an ability to be tough. She had a well earned reputation of taking on the good old boys in the Republican party in Alaska. She took on and beat a sitting Governor in the Republican primary. You have to know a little bit about politics to know how challenging and absolutely risky that was. Only liberal women are suppose to be assertive and tough so Palin shattered that myth. These are just some of the many reasons the media was against her from the beginning and determined to get her.

But wasn't she too inexperienced? Well she had been a mayor, and she had been the head of an important department dealing with oil in Alaska and been a sitting Governor. If you want to see if she was treated fairly based on her experience level all you have to do is go back to 1984 when the first woman was nominated for Vice President. Her name was Geraldine Ferarro. She was a one term congresswoman with no other relevant experiences. Were there vast criticisms from the media about her being inexperienced? Absolutely not. All you heard the media talk about was how ground-breaking this was for women. Double-standard? Of course. To suggest otherwise is complete ignorance.

Don't even get me started about the uneven treatment in the Vice Presidential debates. I can put up several statements that Biden made in that debate that were factually challenged. Stylistically Palin held her on in that debate, but substantively she was challenged.

More straight truth. Palin didn't help herself. Yes she was tough, and yes she was articulate, and yes she was attractive and at times even adorable. But in my view she was also over-confident. When she would be asked questions that she didn't know the answer to or was unfamiliar with the issues then she would talk in circles and cliche's. She also seemed to take things too personally. If you're going to be a conservative on the national stage then you have to accept being a victim of unfair attacks and mischaracterizations. It's one thing to be a victim, and it's quite another to take on the role of a victim. The press conference where she resigned was a disaster. She came off as a bitter victim.

My understanding from what I've read is that after the campaign was over Palin took things even more personally and began to take on a more defensive posture. One might argue that given all the pressure and attacks that this was a normal reaction, but at some point she's either got to shake it off or get out. That's why I cut her slack on resigning. I don't think it's good for her political career, but it may be what she needed to do at that time for herself and family. The problem I have though is those who still want to thrust her out on a national stage to run for President in 2012. I suspect there are many around her that are pumping her with false bravado that she can do this. Yes she is still popular in conservative circles, but her reactions to events tells that she is nowhere near ready for that kind of challenge. She relies way too much on rhetoric and doesn't seem to feel a need to grapple with the complex details of an issue. She needs to be able to talk about all issues the same as she can energy. I suspect that she wants a short-cut and doesn't want to put in the hard work right now. It took her years to come to an understanding of energy policy, and it will take the same for other issues.

The good that can come out of this is that we can see firsthand what will happen when someone from a different group than white men stands up and becomes a force for conservatism. Women will be come under all kinds of attacks like Palin. If it is an African American then they will have to deal with all kinds of accusations about being an Uncle Tom, and if it is a Latino then they'll engender their share of attacks as well. On a national level Democrats get a majority of women voters, over 90% of African Americans, and a sizable majority of Latinos. Yet in all but one recent election they still have a tough time getting near 50% in a presidential election. If Conservatives make any appreciable gains in any of those groups then it would produce a major swing in outcome. The media and the left know what's at stake. That's why they'll defend their territory to the death and ruthlessly attack any Republican candidate that challenges that territory.

To sum it up, Palin got in their cross-fire and reaped the results. She didn't handle it too well and became defensive and reactionary. Now she'll have to recover and regroup if she is to have a political career in the future.

What i wanted to say but said better...thank you...this A team vs B team stuff is the best some people can do i guess.
- July 10th, 2009, 08:11 pm
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Faira wrote :
Is this you being a prophet again?

No this is Saul being a good AMERICAN. That's what most Texans and many Southerners are.
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- July 10th, 2009, 09:04 pm
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neardc wrote :
Oh, puleeeze.... If you're going to make a case for her, you should at least be able to do it without making stuff up about Michelle Obama (who pays for her own wardrobe, by the way...).

The below is not aimed at neardc but is some observations per this post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

It's a pity how the Political Correct judge a person's ability by their skin color. Lying, taught via the Political Correct media, has become the #1 National artform. The anti-American, anti-male, anti-family, anti-heteros exual & anti-Constitutional political correct have bought and bribed their way to the top.

Americans will fight to the death forever, to get it back. It's past time every American draw a line in the sand and refuse to back down anymore from the Political Correct. The Anti-American media is rabidly biased against Palin. And in that bias they show their true hatred of everything American. After all, they don't pledge an allegience to our Flag; they support a different flag.

Disclaimer-I admire Michelle Obama and harbor no ill feelings towards here. My post here is on how unfair and totally biased the media has been to Palin while giving Biden a pass. Biden was given a pass because he helped push thru VAWA-a trillion dollar cash cow.

Palin, who operates more on family values, is seen as an opponent as this unfair VAWA trillion dollar cash cow [in which millions of divorced fathers fight parental alienation while thousands of fathers commit suicide.]

While I am not a Republican [or Democrat] nor believe in every Republican idea, I stand firm behind supporting Palins right to fair treatment per the media. Anything less undermines our Constitution, our Govt., electorial process, our rights & our country.

Too many of our parents, grandparents and great grandparents died fighting to get away from the anti-American dictatorship the Political Correct represent & the Communist media. Imho the media today is getting back per the Sen. Joseph McCarthy era. Except now the media is targeting the Gentile Mr. Joe and Mrs. Citizen imho. The Sarah Palin treatement per the media goes far beyond what most Americans are talking about per this subject.

Bottomline it's a fight to save a free America. Or to be enslaved from any foreign country [or idealogy] with enough $ to buy out the Politicians & media. Read your history-it's all been done before.
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- July 10th, 2009, 09:46 pm
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neardc wrote :
Oh, puleeeze.... If you're going to make a case for her, you should at least be able to do it without making stuff up about Michelle Obama (who pays for her own wardrobe, by the way...).

The below is not aimed at neardc but is some observations per this post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


It's a pity how the Political Correct judge a person's ability by their skin color. Lying, taught via the Political Correct media, has become the #1 National artform. The anti-American, anti-male, anti-family, anti-heteros exual & anti-Constitutional political correct have bought and bribed their way to the top.

Americans will fight to the death forever, to get it back. It's past time every American draw a line in the sand and refuse to back down anymore from the Political Correct. The Anti-American media is rabidly biased against Palin. And in that bias they show their true hatred of everything American. After all, they don't pledge an allegience to our Flag; they support a different flag.

Disclaimer-I admire Michelle Obama and harbor no ill feelings towards here. My post here is on how unfair and totally biased the media has been to Palin while giving Biden a pass. Biden was given a pass because he helped push thru VAWA-a trillion dollar cash cow.

Palin, who operates more on family values, is seen as an opponent as this unfair VAWA trillion dollar cash cow [in which millions of divorced fathers fight parental alienation while thousands of fathers commit suicide.]

While I am not a Republican [or Democrat] nor believe in every Republican idea, I stand firm behind supporting Palins right to fair treatment per the media. Anything less undermines our Constitution, our Govt., electorial process, our rights & our country.

Too many of our parents, grandparents and great grandparents died fighting to get away from the anti-American dictatorship the Political Correct represent & the Communist media. Imho the media today is getting back per the Sen. Joseph McCarthy era. Except now the media is targeting the Gentile Mr. Joe and Mrs. Citizen imho. The Sarah Palin treatement per the media goes far beyond what most Americans are talking about per this subject.

America is now Occupied Territory. The PC are the occupiers; true American Citizens are the vanquished. We are now prisioners in the land where we were birthed. Bottomline it's a fight to save a free America. Or to be enslaved from any foreign country [or idealogy] with enough $ to buy out the Politicians & media. Read your history-it's all been done before.
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- July 10th, 2009, 09:46 pm
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outlaw1 wrote :
No this is Saul being a good AMERICAN. That's what most Texans and many Southerners are.
and what many Northerners, Westerners.... are. Texans aren't any more patriotic than people of other states. (I'm not saying you were arguing this.)

BTW, I'm a Texan born and raised.
- July 10th, 2009, 09:50 pm
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waltercl wrote :
All news of this sort is viewed through whatever political prism someone chooses to use. I believe I'm in that rare minority that doesn't use a prism and just calls it like it is.
An interesting thing about humans is that we all interpret the world according to our own understanding. When we "call a thing what it is", what we really mean is we are "expressing our particular view of the thing". That goes for me, too. I enjoy gaining some understanding of another person's viewpoint, and I'm glad you are willing to express yours. Now, I'm going to express mine.

waltercl wrote :
For instance I felt many Republicans during the Clinton years had a case of Clinton Derangement Syndrome. He was a somewhat decent president, never as bad as his critics suggested and never as good as his admirers. I feel the same about Bush.
I think that's a fair assessment of Clinton. W might have been a half way decent president if not for 9/11. I voted for him in his first run. I don't think Gore would have been a very good president.

waltercl wrote :
So here is some straight truth about Palin. When she burst on the scene she was articulate, attractive, and well-liked.
This is where I start to loose you...

When, in your opinion, did she burst on the scene? I, like many American's didn't know who she was until McCain announced she would be his running mate. As his running mate, she was never articulate, and was only well-liked among extreme conservatives. Buddy, I'm from Texas, chock-full of conservatives, and I only knew a handful of people who thought she was a good choice. Really sad, because that cost McCain the election. Quite a few liberals, such as myself, considered voting for him until then. Shrug. Yeah, I guess she's attractive....in a physical way...but not as a candidate...except among extreme conservatives.

waltercl wrote :
This was an immediate threat to the left because they want to perpetuate the image that Republicans and conservatives in particular are only representative of old white men.
As you said, all of this is viewed through whatever political prism someone chooses to use. In 10 years or so when Meghan McCain gets ready to run for office, I'm betting quite a number of people are going to setup and take notice. How about Hutchinson?

waltercl wrote :
Also Palin showed an ability to be tough.
I never saw her as being "tough". I saw her as being narrow-minded and determined to press her predetermined ideas. She is not very articulate in doing so. W is narrow-minded, and not very articulate, but I can respect him, at least, for being tough.

waltercl wrote :
Only liberal women are suppose to be assertive and tough so Palin shattered that myth.
Hutchinson? Rice? Yes. Tough. Palin? No! Palin just demonstrated how "tough" she is.

waltercl wrote :
But wasn't she too inexperienced? Well she had been a mayor, and she had been the head of an important department dealing with oil in Alaska and been a sitting Governor.
I will agree with you about Palin's experience. It really wasn't ever about her lack of experience. Her "lack of experience" was nothing more than a talking point. It was about her lack of ability. I dunno. It seems to me if she doesn't have the ability to carry out a full term as Governor, she sure as heck wouldn't have had the ability to carry out a full term as VP. Of course, that's a hindsight is 20/20 argument. Oh, well!

waltercl wrote :
If you want to see if she was treated fairly based on her experience level all you have to do is go back to 1984 when the first woman was nominated for Vice President. Her name was Geraldine Ferarro.
I'm sorry, but Palin isn't in the same league as Ferarro...not even the same sport.

waltercl wrote :
Don't even get me started about the uneven treatment in the Vice Presidential debates. I can put up several statements that Biden made in that debate that were factually challenged. Stylistically Palin held her on in that debate, but substantively she was challenged.
Did we watch the same debate? I agree, Biden had factual errors in the debate. If you listened to the commentators after the debate, you probably heard the same thing I did about Biden's performance...the man makes factual errors!! Nobody tried to hide that fact. Palin dind't even come close to holding her own in that debate. She kept talking in circles and avoided answering the questions and (what was it?) talked in cliche's....because she didn't know didly squat about them!! Even considering the factual errors Biden consistently makes, he is vastly more qualified as a VP. He has more ability than Palin. Whether you agree with Biden's philosophy or not, you have to admit, he has been a good Senator. Just as Orrin Hatch has been a good Senator....that is, if you truly don't pay attention to someone's political affiliation.

waltercl wrote :
More straight truth. Palin didn't help herself. Yes she was tough, and yes she was articulate, and yes she was attractive and at times even adorable.
She was not tough; she was single-minded. There's a difference. She was not articulate, ya betcha. And, what the heck does her physical attractiveness have to do with anything? Seriously dude! Talk about setting women back....

waltercl wrote :
She also seemed to take things too personally.
Gotta have a thick skin to be in politics. She doesn't have a very thick skin...probably because she uses Ivory Soap. Sigh.

waltercl wrote :
If you're going to be a conservative on the national stage then you have to accept being a victim of unfair attacks and mischaracterizations.
Any politician is going to be attacked by the opposing party. Do you remember the things that came out about Clinton when he was running for President? (I voted for Papa George, by the way).

waltercl wrote :
It's one thing to be a victim, and it's quite another to take on the role of a victim. The press conference where she resigned was a disaster. She came off as a bitter victim.
That's 'cause she is a bitter "victim". She should maybe take a lesson from Hillary. Just my thought.

waltercl wrote :
IMy understanding from what I've read is that after the campaign was over Palin took things even more personally and began to take on a more defensive posture. One might argue that given all the pressure and attacks that this was a normal reaction, but at some point she's either got to shake it off or get out. That's why I cut her slack on resigning.
I dont' cut her slack. She doesn't deserve it. She's a hypocrit when it comes to her policies. She wants to appear "tough" while crying about her victimization. I don't feel pity for her. Politics is a tough field. She made a commitment to the people of Alaska, and has let them down. I am forgiving when it comes to making mistakes. I find it hard to forgiving when a person refuses to learn from mistakes. I find it hard to forgiving of people who take commitments lightly. That wasn't just a job at McDonalds that she accepted.

waltercl wrote :
Yes she is still popular in conservative circles, but her reactions to events tells that she is nowhere near ready for that kind of challenge. She relies way too much on rhetoric and doesn't seem to feel a need to grapple with the complex details of an issue. She needs to be able to talk about all issues the same as she can energy. I suspect that she wants a short-cut and doesn't want to put in the hard work right now.
I agree. She wants short cuts, and has found out - the hard way - that she ain't going to get them.

waltercl wrote :
The good that can come out of this is that we can see firsthand what will happen when someone from a different group than white men stands up and becomes a force for conservatism. Women will be come under all kinds of attacks like Palin. If it is an African American then they will have to deal with all kinds of accusations about being an Uncle Tom, and if it is a Latino then they'll engender their share of attacks as well.
Steele is being called an Uncle Tom? I haven't heard that.

waltercl wrote :
On a national level Democrats get a majority of women voters, over 90% of African Americans, and a sizable majority of Latinos. Yet in all but one recent election they still have a tough time getting near 50% in a presidential election. If Conservatives make any appreciable gains in any of those groups then it would produce a major swing in outcome. The media and the left know what's at stake. That's why they'll defend their territory to the death and ruthlessly attack any Republican candidate that challenges that territory.
Of course Democrats will defend that terroritory. The Republicans will have to make some serious changes before they threaten those votes.

waltercl wrote :
To sum it up, Palin got in their cross-fire and reaped the results. She didn't handle it too well and became defensive and reactionary. Now she'll have to recover and regroup if she is to have a political career in the future.
I honestly don't think there's any regrouping for Palin to do. Her political carreer is over. Resigning as governor was the nail in the coffin.
- July 10th, 2009, 10:02 pm
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outlaw1 wrote :
No this is Saul being a good AMERICAN. That's what most Texans and many Southerners are.
Woot! I knew I was a good American. Dancy Dance!!

Last edited by jcd1968; July 10th, 2009 at 10:25 pm.
- July 10th, 2009, 10:03 pm
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outlaw1 wrote :
Palin, who operates more on family values (snip, cause I don't want to debate VAWA)
I love reading your post, Outlaw (cute cow by the way, I'ma gonna be dream'in tonight!). But, I gotta take exception to this. I'm a very liberal person (I know, being on the extreme is a fault). Here's the deal...I, like most liberals I know, have family values. We believe very strongly in family. My objections to Palin isn't about family values...it's her lack of depth...her lack of ability. It's irratating to hear bright people, such as yourself, insinuate that we on the left don't value the family. I realize you directed the statement to the "politaclly correct", but in these post Reagan years, that equates to liberals. That may not have been your intent, but it's just kind of a sore spot for me. I guess 'cause I've heard so much of it in the media.

Last edited by jcd1968; July 10th, 2009 at 10:24 pm.
- July 10th, 2009, 10:22 pm
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Originally Posted by outlaw1

No this is Saul being a good AMERICAN. That's what most Texans and many Southerners are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


[quote=JTF;669890]and what many Northerners, Westerners.... are. Texans aren't any more patriotic than people of other states. (I'm not saying you were arguing this.)

BTW, I'm a Texan born and raised.[/quote]


__________________________________________

You are right, I agree with your post. However aren't many Texans very patriotic?
- July 10th, 2009, 10:41 pm
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Originally Posted by outlaw1

No this is Saul being a good AMERICAN. That's what most Texans and many Southerners are.
_________________________________________


jcd1968 wrote :
Woot! I knew I was a good American. Dancy Dance!!
__________________________________________

Dang you are making me laugh! Yikes I drank too much coffee to stay awake...
- July 10th, 2009, 10:43 pm
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