Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #61  July 8,2009, 8:47am
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JTF wrote :
You've got to be kidding . Do you seriously think that Obama was "plucked" by the Democrats, and that this was done to "appease" minorities?

You might not like Obama, but it's pretty clear that he is largely a self-made man who used his own natural charisma, talent, and hard work to catapult himself into the national scene.
Bah ... Lost my response when the internet went down, so going to summarize ...

Palin was chosen as much to appease the religious Republicans as Obama was chosen to appease the minority camp ... My comment was made simply to show how silly TP's comment was ... Not to show my opinion on the subject.

With regards to formal education being important 25 years later ... I am going to have to throw the 'lame argument' card ... What one learns during college is not of major, life-changing importance ... The main benefit to college is that it teaches you how to adapt and overcome various issues ... How to manage time ... etc ... I am just a few years out of college and know that just about nothing is studied in college has had a direct impact on my life ... I don't think I have tried to find the derivative of an expression, nor do I expect to (until I get into teaching, at least).

One might argue that going to law school or med school is different ... False ... Practical knowledge of legal cases or medical cases is imeasurably more important ... The degree simply opens up doors or oppurtunities.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #62  July 8,2009, 9:16am
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Rand_011 wrote :
Bah ... Lost my response when the internet went down, so going to summarize ...

Palin was chosen as much to appease the religious Republicans as Obama was chosen to appease the minority camp ... My comment was made simply to show how silly TP's comment was ... Not to show my opinion on the subject.

With regards to formal education being important 25 years later ... I am going to have to throw the 'lame argument' card ... What one learns during college is not of major, life-changing importance ... The main benefit to college is that it teaches you how to adapt and overcome various issues ... How to manage time ... etc ... I am just a few years out of college and know that just about nothing is studied in college has had a direct impact on my life ... I don't think I have tried to find the derivative of an expression, nor do I expect to (until I get into teaching, at least).

One might argue that going to law school or med school is different ... False ... Practical knowledge of legal cases or medical cases is imeasurably more important ... The degree simply opens up doors or oppurtunities.
While some degrees might be like you describe (dance and art degrees...IMO), many technical degrees out there that are essential to a persons understanding of their future jobs. Yeah, there are a few kids out there that seem to be Einstein's (spelling?) when it comes to computers, the majority of people NEED the college and professors to understand the material.

As for the doctors and lawyers, a LOT of information is learned in those schools, without it you would be clueless as to the correct medical procedures and paper work/processes that NEED to take place. I certainly would not hire doctor with a Google/Wikipedia PhD or a lawyer that spent the last 8 years watching Judge Judy.
 
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saulgoode is offline saulgoode Post #63  July 8,2009, 9:39am
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Sarah quit for two reasons:

1) Michelle Obama spends 3x more on her wardrobe, and nobody says squat about it. Nope. Michelle gets put on the front of a magazine, and kudos for being so gosh-darn snappy. But Sarah's all scandalous, wwhoooowwwhooo!

2) The media and prime-time tele have R.A.P.E.D her children, all of them, even her grandchildren, repeatedly, unapologetically, lus.tfully and with great salivating vigor as they THRUST THRUST THRUST deeper into the black underbelly of her daughters. hahaha. That crazy Letterman, those witty S N L writers...

That's why she quit, folks. Anybody would.

That's how the left runs its campaigns. The media's their right arm, them and I guess S N L, too. We see and hear it every day.

They say: "God Bless Michael Jackson. God Bless his children."

They say: "God Damn Sarah Palin. God Damn her children."

And we do it. Because they say so.


- Saul
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #64  July 8,2009, 9:57am
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DW ... You misunderstood ... For many of the technical areas ... The degree opens up the doors and provides good book knowledge and basic hands-on experience ... For a doctor or lawyer, et al ... You get the degree upon completion and 'think' you have a good idea on things (for many individuals, some know the truth and know that they are now as freshman out of high school again once they finish).

A lawyer that has been practicing law for 20 years that went to a JC and then a small college, then small law school after is likely far more qualified than a young kid from Yale. I know who I would want handling my case .. Same goes for medicine or any technical field ...
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #65  July 8,2009, 10:19am
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Bandmate wrote :
it's called hypocrisy...the "Lord" takes a dim veiw of it...it's in your Bible
Where were we being hypocritical in what we said? I admitted to being cynical, yes. I am.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #66  July 8,2009, 10:26am
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Rand_011 wrote :
DW ... You misunderstood ... For many of the technical areas ... The degree opens up the doors and provides good book knowledge and basic hands-on experience ... For a doctor or lawyer, et al ... You get the degree upon completion and 'think' you have a good idea on things (for many individuals, some know the truth and know that they are now as freshman out of high school again once they finish).

A lawyer that has been practicing law for 20 years that went to a JC and then a small college, then small law school after is likely far more qualified than a young kid from Yale. I know who I would want handling my case .. Same goes for medicine or any technical field ...
Alright, that's more clear and I can vouch for that. The defense contractor I work for has some young buck engineers that have ideas about how my jammer should be set up. Ugh, talk about a headache, get some field experience, or perhaps, actually see the equipment in person before you come at me with your "ideas". Theory only goes so far.
 
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JTF is offline JTF Post #67  July 8,2009, 11:43am
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Rand_011 wrote :
Palin was chosen as much to appease the religious Republicans as Obama was chosen to appease the minority camp ... My comment was made simply to show how silly TP's comment was ... Not to show my opinion on the subject.
Ok. So you don't think that Obama was plucked by the Dems to appease minorities. I agree.

The difference between Obama and Palin in this discussion is that Obama wasn't chosen at all (unless you count winning elections as being "chosen")....he ran his campaign through a grueling primary and a national election. Palin was atually chosen for VP, and obviously McCain picked her for a reason. You may disagree that it was to appease the religious Repubs, but it was almost certainly done to appeal to some constituency of voters.

Rand_011 wrote :
With regards to formal education being important 25 years later ... I am going to have to throw the 'lame argument' card ... What one learns during college is not of major, life-changing importance ... The main benefit to college is that it teaches you how to adapt and overcome various issues ... How to manage time ... etc ... I am just a few years out of college and know that just about nothing is studied in college has had a direct impact on my life ... I don't think I have tried to find the derivative of an expression, nor do I expect to (until I get into teaching, at least).
Maybe I missed it, but who made a claim in regards to formal education?? graceventually claimed that Palin is not educated enough to be President (which I agree), but she didn't specify that she was referring to "formal education".

For the most part, I do agree with you about college degrees.

Rand_011 wrote :
One might argue that going to law school or med school is different ... False ... Practical knowledge of legal cases or medical cases is imeasurably more important ... The degree simply opens up doors or oppurtunities.
Have you ever been to law school or med school?
 
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JTF is offline JTF Post #68  July 8,2009, 11:52am
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Rand_011 wrote :
DW ... You misunderstood ... For many of the technical areas ... The degree opens up the doors and provides good book knowledge and basic hands-on experience ... For a doctor or lawyer, et al ... You get the degree upon completion and 'think' you have a good idea on things (for many individuals, some know the truth and know that they are now as freshman out of high school again once they finish).
Certainly med school and law school doesn't, by itself, fully equip someone to be a successful doctor or lawyer. A good education + experience is necessary. That's not controversial. But the things you learn in law/med school (esp. med school) are vital and irreplaceable.

Rand_011 wrote :
A lawyer that has been practicing law for 20 years that went to a JC and then a small college, then small law school after is likely far more qualified than a young kid from Yale. I know who I would want handling my case .. Same goes for medicine or any technical field ...
For the most part, a lawyer just 5 years out of Yale is vastly more capable than the lawyer from the JC/small law school with 20 years.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #69  July 8,2009, 12:33pm
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JTF wrote :
Ok. So you don't think that Obama was plucked by the Dems to appease minorities. I agree.

1) The difference between Obama and Palin in this discussion is that Obama wasn't chosen at all (unless you count winning elections as being "chosen")....he ran his campaign through a grueling primary and a national election. Palin was atually chosen for VP, and obviously McCain picked her for a reason. You may disagree that it was to appease the religious Repubs, but it was almost certainly done to appeal to some constituency of voters.

2) Maybe I missed it, but who made a claim in regards to formal education?? graceventually claimed that Palin is not educated enough to be President (which I agree), but she didn't specify that she was referring to "formal education".

For the most part, I do agree with you about college degrees.

3) Have you ever been to law school or med school?
1) I have a hard time seeing why the DNC would have a state senator be a guest speaker with but 7 years on the job ... He wasn't a US senator at the time IIRC ... Flash forward to when he becomes a US senator ... He's had ~2 years before he makes a run for president ... I have a ahrd time seeing the RNC or DNC giving any support to so junior a member.

2) It was indicated that Palin went to five colleges during that statement with regards to her education .. .Which implies the statement was with regards to her formal education ... Now, if it was meant to be implied that she is too dumb for the VP spot ... I am curious, how does one quanitfy it? Biden is notorious for saying dumb remarks but it is written off as his personal mannerism ... So what one mis-speaks aren't an indicator ... Palin speaks well and appears to be rather quick on her feet with responses ...

3) No, haven't been ... Dad went and has run his own lawfirm for 30+ years hiring many many attorneys and is what I would call a very sucessful lawyer ... And went to a very small law school ... I know quite a few other lawyers/doctors as well ... And I can't think of one that would recomend the kid just out of Yale on his own for 5 years over the person that has been working in that particular field of law for 20+ years.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #70  July 8,2009, 12:49pm
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JTF wrote :
1) Certainly med school and law school doesn't, by itself, fully equip someone to be a successful doctor or lawyer. A good education + experience is necessary. That's not controversial. But the things you learn in law/med school (esp. med school) are vital and irreplaceable.

2) For the most part, a lawyer just 5 years out of Yale is vastly more capable than the lawyer from the JC/small law school with 20 years.
1) Going to disagree ... The focus, the concentration, the techniques learned to research answers ... That is the true benefit ... Being able to remember that in 1932 xyz occurred and was ruled upon is not likely to be a benefit (other than to reduce research time a bit) ... In medicine, most doctors specialize in something ... But go to school and learn a broad range of topics ... Most of which they will never use ... I know fewer people on the medicine end ... But those that have finished there and begun practicing have indicated that the schooling was helpful ... But the experience they are getting now is imeasurably more useful.

2) Let's break this down real quick ... 5 year out of Yale ... Likelihood of working at either the bottom rung of a large lawfirm or working as an independent is high ... Assume independent for now ... First 6 months to a year is prospecting (of a sort) ... So you're ~27-32 ... And green around the ages ... No practical experience yet ... Not a cahnce i would ever choose the young kid out of Yale.

Flip side ... Let's say he goes to work for a large firm ... He/she is doing a lot of the paperwork for the attorneys that have been there years ... Extra cases get filtered down to the newbie ... In five years the newbie is likely to have handled fewer cases than the Vet handles in a single year.

In both cases I am not taking into account the boy prodigy issue ... As the genius that bedazzles all that goes through Yale or that goes to a small school will still be very successful.
 
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