passerine is offline passerine Post #1  June 26,2009, 8:31am
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I noticed the disscussion on socialism began to digress and focus on education. Recently, I've taken an interest in education and what and how children should be taught and I thought it would be interesting to hear some thoughts on the role of school in soceity. I feel very strongly that the school's should focus on intellectual education and leave the rest to the parents and I found a school that shares my views. They have shorter school days (only 3 hours in grade one) that lengthen as the children age. And at first they only learn reading, writing, spelling and math and add in other subjects as they age (French Gr. 2, Geography Gr. 3, Science Gr. 4, History Gr. 6 and Latin Gr. 8). I like that they focus on the basics of being able to learn and than add more subjects as they're ability to process ideas increases. Any thoughts out there on what kids should learn and the role of the government? I thought about posting this under "everything else" but the government in most countries have a control over these things so I'm thinking it belongs here.
 
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meri75 is offline meri75 Post #2  June 28,2009, 3:40am
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Interesting post. Our Govt (Australia) definitely controls curriculum and it is different in each State. Same with home schooling.

I'm not following your point on intellectual v 'everything else'. Under 'everything else' would you be referencing things such as: Art, Craft, Home Economics, Leatherwork, Woodwork etc?

I find it really interesting that a language was introduced in Year 2. I was in Year 8 before the opportunity to study French was available. I've often wondered why children aren't taught languages as soon as they start school ... most children are verbally fluent in their native language by age three.
 
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passerine is offline passerine Post #3  June 28,2009, 7:53am
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In canada the different provinces control the curriculum. And in Alberta at least everyone has to have a second language to graduate (but this is a new law). The school cirriculum I mentioned was for a private school; usually all those courses start in Grade 1 (except never latin and in stead of geography and history there's social studies). However, the private school doesn't have any of those courses you mentioned (wood working, Home ec...), which I have mixed feelings about. There are some arts and sports programs after school but those are organised by the parents; the schools position is that there are no classes for most of the afternoon so if you want your kids to have that you need to procure it your self. That's easy for art or Home ec but if your kid wants to take wood working it could be difficult.

What I really like is that instead of starting all of the subjects at once they just focus on teaching the kids the three R's and add subjects that require more skills of comprehension as they age. And in grade one there's only 3 hours of school so the rest of the day could be for free play. I'm not sure how the early elementary curriculum is in Australia but the things they learn in science and social at that age here are things they could be taught quicker if they were older and could also include more depth.

Do you have private schools in Australia? Some of the provinces give funding to private schools (eg Alberta) but some people really freak out when this happens because they think that this is taking money away from the public system and promotes and "framentation of Alberta Soceity". I think having all kinds of schools using different philosophies and models is enriching, the idea of schools being used to create "good citizens" and a homogenous society is very distasteful to me.
 
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angelofmerci is offline angelofmerci Post #4  June 30,2009, 2:08pm
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In the US each state governs the schools. Over the decades since I went attended grades k-12 the cirriculum has changed drastically. Normal math courses have been replaced with new math which is a crock. Starting in grade 7 you were required to take English clear through grade 12 where you had to learn how to identify the different parts of the sentence. Not any longer. No more mandatory Phys Ed classes that hurt no one but helped students relax and helped with the weight. What we get now is mandatory testing to see how well the school is doing their job which focuses on testing instead of learning in the classroom. The kids also have to take an exit exam before they can graduate even if they are passing all the course work. If they do not pass this exit exam then they are not allowed to graduate.

Our schools need to ditch this testing and get back to the basics. Another problem with our schools is that their is way too much censorship in regard to books, ie Catcher in the Rye, Huckleberry Finn etc.
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #5  June 30,2009, 6:18pm
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Amen to less censorship!!
 
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777nom is offline 777nom Post #6  July 2,2009, 6:18pm

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I think if you're eligible to begin a thread about education and the role of the government, you had better be an educator before you start spouting your opinions. There's a lot of stuff going on in the schools which you are deliberately excluded from knowing. I would assume you would want to be aware of this. Unfortunately, educators are instructed that they are to educate children- not adults.
 
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Bandmate is offline Bandmate Post #7  July 2,2009, 6:31pm

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777nom wrote :
I think if you're eligible to begin a thread about education and the role of the government, you had better be an educator before you start spouting your opinions. There's a lot of stuff going on in the schools which you are deliberately excluded from knowing. I would assume you would want to be aware of this. Unfortunately, educators are instructed that they are to educate children- not adults.


So pursuing that logic i guess one has to be a dentist to get a toothache or a plumber to know the faucet is driping......public education is broken in many ways...one of the ways is the arrogance and condescention coming form those in the know who only seem to know how to spend money and yell for more...when 50 years ago we spent less and had better educated children...but i'm sure your salient logic and reason will put to shame any such practical observations by mere mortals and layman
Last edited by Bandmate; July 2,2009 at 6:33pm.
 
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Rob_UK is offline Rob_UK Post #8  July 2,2009, 6:42pm
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777nom wrote :
I think if you're eligible to begin a thread about education and the role of the government, you had better be an educator before you start spouting your opinions. There's a lot of stuff going on in the schools which you are deliberately excluded from knowing. I would assume you would want to be aware of this. Unfortunately, educators are instructed that they are to educate children- not adults.
Madam,

I work in Higher Education in the UK and you are quite wrong. Education lies in the public domain and is not at the whim of "educators" who really have deep knowledge of their own specialism and not of the broader scale. I would never denigrate the beliefs or ideals of educators but one must understand that their expertise is narrow and thus(in the greater sense) flawed. Even as a sociologist of many years study I would balk at claiming I knew what was right for the people. Education is society's concern and therefore society has the right to make judgements (yes, and changes) upon it. They may not always be right (viz. Facisim/National Socialism) but it is "their" society.


wow...did I really type that ?




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singinggirl is online now singinggirl Post #9  July 3,2009, 8:56pm
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I am a former educator (who has been out of the classroom for a year) and am now in educational sales, which means I spend much of everyday in a variety of schools. Education in the US can vary greatly from state to state, as far as curriculum. There are some basics that are required for all students.

In Tennessee, the focus in the early years is on reading and math; I think this is true for much of the country. Other subject areas are taught, but this is where the primary focus is.

Also, physical education is a requirement, but it's not the same as it was 20 years ago. It is much more structured now. Angel, I'm not sure what the school systems are like where you are, but I wonder if what you are thinking of is recess that is no longer mandatory. Many schools have done away with, or severely limited, "free play" time. Imho, this is a mistake because children learn many things on a playground. They learn to get along with others, to use their imaginations, and to entertain themselves. Plus, they get a much needed break. I doubt many of us sit at a desk for 7-8 hours per day without taking breaks.

I think most teachers would agree that there is too much testing in schools today. Many teachers I know feel that they spend more time testing than teaching. Unfortunately, I don't see all of the high stakes testing going away anytime soon.

I feel very strongly that the school's should focus on intellectual education and leave the rest to the parents

Passerine, I don't think you would find many teachers who would disagree with this statement. However, we live in a different world than the one that existed when many of us were children. I taught in a federal/state funded prekindergarten program the last several years. This program targets high-risk, low-income children and you would probably be amazed at someof the things I've seen. I've had 4 year olds come to school in diapers because they hadn't been potty trained. I had a child who didn't know how to use a fork or spoon. I've had children in my classroom who used inappropriate words/language that I had never even heard (and a lot that I had heard before!). The simple fact is that teachers/schools MUST teach some of these things because parents are not doing it.
 
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Raw_Truth is online now Raw_Truth Post #10  July 4,2009, 11:30pm
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The only moral solution is to get government out of the business of education. It should all be privatized.

If and until that happens, the top 80% will continue be sacrificed for the bottom 20% (that is, those in the public schools).
 
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