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dnnmllr dnnmllr is offline
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dnnmllr "Steady my feet in accord with your promise, Let not iniquity lead me"...

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Education should be accessible.
- July 8th, 2009, 11:52 am
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passerine passerine is offline
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But what kind of Education, and under whose control?
- July 8th, 2009, 03:46 pm
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777nom 777nom is offline
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Bandmate wrote :
So pursuing that logic i guess one has to be a dentist to get a toothache or a plumber to know the faucet is driping......public education is broken in many ways...one of the ways is the arrogance and condescention coming form those in the know who only seem to know how to spend money and yell for more...when 50 years ago we spent less and had better educated children...but i'm sure your salient logic and reason will put to shame any such practical observations by mere mortals and layman
> >
> >
With all due respect, the letter /i/ when used in a sentence all by itself is the first person, personal pronoun and should therefore be capitalized. >>
The contraction I’m comes from the root words I
and am. That meansthe letter /i/ should be capitalized. >>
Also, drip is the root word for the word dripping. The suffix “ing,” begins with a vowel. When a root word ends with a consonant preceeded by a vowel, you double the final consonant to add a suffix that begins with a vowel. >>
> >
The correct spelling for condescension is not condescention. >>

At the risk of divulging salient logic to a layman, I feel compelled to inform you that there are these things called commas. You can use them to list phrases in a series of examples or items in a list. There are also things called sentences. They end with periods. They also begin with a capital letter, >>
> >
The initiating inquiry for the thread was:>>

Any thoughts out there on what kids should learn and the role of the government?>>
> >
> >
My response may not have been clear and I do apologize for any offence it may have caused you. The federal government’s role in any type of school system is huge. Almost all decisions made by a school system centers around the government. >>
> >
I can appreciate your comment regarding educational spending-but I can assure you that educators in the classroom are not the people yelling for more money. They definitely do not decide how to spend it. Those are reserved for higher levels of the bureaucracy, not mere educators. >>
>>
Yours Most Sincerely and Respectfully,>>
777 Nom>>
Last edited by 777nom; July 23rd, 2009 at 01:15 am.
- July 11th, 2009, 04:47 pm
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777nom 777nom is offline
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Rob_UK wrote :
Madam,

I work in Higher Education in the UK and you are quite wrong. Education lies in the public domain and is not at the whim of "educators" who really have deep knowledge of their own specialism and not of the broader scale. I would never denigrate the beliefs or ideals of educators but one must understand that their expertise is narrow and thus(in the greater sense) flawed. Even as a sociologist of many years study I would balk at claiming I knew what was right for the people. Education is society's concern and therefore society has the right to make judgements (yes, and changes) upon it. They may not always be right (viz. Facisim/National Socialism) but it is "their" society.


wow...did I really type that ?




cogitating
Sir,
Yes, you did type the words above. I’d like to offer some gentle advice before I translate my original comment.>>
As you are a sociologist of many years, I feel it is pertinent to inform you that the correct spelling for fascism is not facism.

Also, you should not capitalize the first letter of the word as it is not a proper noun. It is a word used to label a governmental system. This is also why we don’t capitalize capitalism- (no pun intended). You could capitalize the/ f/ if it was the first word of the sentence but it is not in your comment.

The correct spelling for judgments is not judgements. Linguists call a word like judgments a red word. Red words require memorization, a dictionary, or spell check to ensure proper spelling. You would think the /e/ should be retained when adding a suffix that begins with a consonant because the vowel /e/ makes the /g/ soft just as the vowels /i / and /y/ do. Here are some examples: genuine, gypsy, gin, gem, gyroscope, imagine, engine. I’m sure you understand this when you compare words containing a /g/ followed by /i/,/e/,and/y/ to words that have /g/ followed by the vowels /a/,/o/,and /u/. Game, gobble, gummy, gun, and give are some examples.
The thing is, the /e/ is not responsible for the soft g sound in the word judgment. The diagraph /dg/ is. The /e/ is considered silent after the consonant digraph because of its Anglo-Saxon derivation.

Words of Anglo-Saxon derivation usually contain short vowel signals like: -ck (back), -tch (switch), -dge (judge), -ll,-ff,-ss, and –zz (well, staff, miss, buzz.) They are also common, everyday one syllable words. Many are non-phonetic because /e/ is placed at the end of the root word.
What you need to remember when you want to add a suffix to an Anglo-Saxon verb is whether the meaning of the word is compromised by dropping the /e/. In judgment, the meaning is not compromised. Go ahead and drop the /e/ hereafter.

I think you may have intended to write the word ideas instead of ideals. You see, ideas are things that exist in the mind as a result of the thought process. Ideal can only be singular. The word ideal connotes something that is regarded as the best of its kind, or a conception of something in its absolute perfection.

I implore you to look over the sentence that begins with these words; “Even as a sociologist of many years study
I would balk at claiming I knew what was right for the people. The word even is an adjective. The subject of your sentence is I. The predicate is would balk. You started the sentence with a descriptive participial phrase. You need to separate it from the rest of your sentence with a comma. It should be, Even as a sociologist of many years study, I would balk at claiming I knew what was right for the people. (Actually, I would have avoided writing a sentence with so many verbs. It compromises the fluency of your writing.)>>

I’ve copied my comment below.


I think if you're eligible to begin a thread about education and the role of the government, you had better be an educator before you start spouting your opinions. There's a lot of stuff going on in the schools which you are deliberately excluded from knowing. I would assume you would want to be aware of this. Unfortunately, educators are instructed that they are to educate children- not adults.>>

Could you please explain your thinking? How am I saying that I know what is right for the people in this brief statement?

In your comment you wrote, “one [educators] must understand that their expertise is narrow and thus(in the greater sense) flawed.

Did you consider primary teachers when you wrote this? Primary teachers must be trained in physical science, life science, history, political and physical geography, geometry, patterns, functions, algebra, number sense, measurement, data analysis, probability, mathematical processes, language arts, reading, writing, and social studies. >>

Perhaps we could have some conversation comparing our educational experiences. >>

I don't really understand how your IDEAS even relate to my comment. >>

The initial inquiry was: >>

I noticed the disscussion on socialism began to digress and focus on education……….. Any thoughts out there on what kids should learn and the role of the government? I thought about posting this under "everything else" but the government in most countries have a control over these things so I'm thinking it belongs here.>>
> >
You state that you work in higher education in the UK. I’m writing from an American perspective. Allow me to quote a section from the Forward written in the state of __________ department of Education Curriculum Content Standards in Mathematics for K-12. >>

We are excited to announce that the State Board of Education took a key step in reforming _______'s
education system, when it unanimously adopted academic content standards in reading, writing, and mathematics. Clear standards about what students should know and be able to do in reading, writing and mathematics is the first component of an aligned system that will ensure no child is left behind. . . . . The standards fulfill the requirement and timeline of Amended Substitute Senate Bill 1 for the State Board of Education to develop and adopt clear academic content standards. The bill gives the Department of Education the ability to design and produce model curricula for kindergarten through 12th grade. The State Board of Education will use these standards as the basis for the development of achievement or diagnostic assessments for kindergarten through grade 10. >>

Any school, be it private, public, charter or home school is obligated to address these standards. If the government decides the school is not proficient based on the _______ Ahievement Test data, the school looses money and is monitored by Educational Assessmet teams. One teacher I know administered 67 Diagnostic Assessments in one year.

I was thinking of this when I wrote that educators are instructed to educate children- not adults. How could anyone (let alone an overworked teacher), do that? Teachers have stacks of books describing the standards and indicators that need to be taught.

May I also add that there is no consideration regarding the demographics between schools within a district. No exceptions are made for children whose basic needs are not addresses at home. No modifications have been made for children with emotional disabitlities.


I see no indication in the above quotation explaining how the "public domain," has a choice in determining how the government should influence the education of a child .

While you cogitate on this, keep in mind that politcians have made contributions to these documents. Instruction is based on what the politicians believe should be taught.

When President Carter created the Department of Education, the American citizen unwittingly lost any power they had in determining how children should be educated.


Every school in _____ is obligated to follow the standards and indicators written by the State Board of Education. The schools have a timeline and if a child doesn't get the concept, they are left behind because there is something else that needs to be taught.

President Bush's soapbox speach about No Child Left Behind is a federal law. Only the Supreme Court can overrule it. That would be ideal but I seriously doubt that will ever happen. >>


I must admit. You did sucessfully confuse me when I read you comment though I can not say I was impressed. I guess you misinterpreted me when I wrote,


I think if you're eligible to begin a thread about education and the role of the government, you had better be an educator before you start spouting your opinions.


I wrote this because I'm used to uninformed people trashing teachers. Perhaps I seemed impertinent when I wrote,

There's a lot of stuff going on in the schools which you are deliberately excluded from knowing. I would assume you would want to be aware of this. Unfortunately, educators are instructed that they are to educate children- not adults.>>


I wrote this because when I first read the thread and considered commenting, I realized that I would be opening a can of worms with a depth down to Hades and beyond.

With all due respect Sir, you are wrong. As an aside, your claim that you "work in higher education," and the fact that you used the word "wrong," suprised me. In the U.S., we don't use that word. It causes children to become discouraged and close down.

In the United States, the "public domain" does not determine how children should be educated.

It is also not determined by the "whim of educators." I actually laughed when I read that.

The process of educating children belongs to the politicians,
> >
Yours Most Sincerely and Respectfully, >>
777Nom>>
> >
Last edited by 777nom; July 23rd, 2009 at 01:17 am.
- July 19th, 2009, 10:10 pm
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