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Rand_011 Rand_011 is offline
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Just read an article that the plan put forth would cost roughly $1.9 trillion (over ten years) and would cover 16 million of the uninsured ... They had another plan that would have cost ~$4 trillion over ten years to cover all ~45 million uninsured, but that plan was scraped due to be too costly.

Now's where it gets rather funny ... That 1.9 trillion for the 16 million uninsured leaves us at ~$1 million per uninsured every 10 years, or $100,000 spent on each uninsured every year.

I am assuming the 16 million they are refering to are not the ~16 million that are currently elligible for federal programs but just don't bother to enroll ... I am assuming the 16 million aren't the same ~16 million that make $60k+ a year and just don't want to pay for insurance ... At least, I hope such is the case.
- June 26th, 2009, 10:18 am
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Rand,

From some of your earlier posts you seem to know a bit about health insurance so let me ask a question.

What is so difficult about instituting a program similar to Medicare (or Medicaid) for everyone? Maybe a 'bare bones' plan for everyone, then if someone wanted a better plan, they could purchase a supplemental plan on their own, similar to the current Medicare system?

I'm not advocating my position as either for or against, I just don't see the difficulty of coming up with some sort of plan that covers everyone for the basics.
- June 26th, 2009, 12:06 pm
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Tweet37 ... First off .. The trouble would be coming to any agreement on what 'baisc' medical coverage would be ... Compared to the private sector, Medicare is very rich coverage ...

Basic coverage on the private sector end would be ~5k ded. 80/20 after ded. for another 3k out of pocket ... Medicare has ~950 ded (based on a quarter IIRC, instead of year) and then 80/20 after for hospital and a ~100 ded for office visits then 80/20 after.

Currently taxes for medicare are at ~3% for roughly 50 mmillion people so if we had 300 million on it, we'd be looking at roughly 18% tax for medicare alone.
- June 26th, 2009, 01:11 pm
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Rand_011 wrote :
Tweet37 ... First off .. The trouble would be coming to any agreement on what 'baisc' medical coverage would be ...
I agree. Nobody wants to tackle that one. Therefore, everybody is going to be totally covered for everything, hence, a program with exorbitant cost.

I could be wrong but most private plans have a $ limit. Do you agree that it's reasonable for the O plan to similarly set a limit, then if one wants to upgrade, they could do so on their own with a private insurer?

In addition, is it reasonable to expect the taxpayers to pay for a lung transplant for someone who smokes three packs of cigarettes a day? Or a liver transplant for the alcoholic? Probably no one wants to tackle that one either.

Sorry I went off topic a bit but back to your OP. I think you have an extra 0 in some of the math. $1.9 trillion for 16 million people comes out to $118,000/ person over 10 years = $10,000/person/yr. And for $4 trillion for 45 million people comes out to $90,000/ person over 10 years = $9000/person/year.

Both of the above examples seem high to me as my employer provided plan is less than $10,000 for my entire family. Yeah, some co-pays and some deductible, but still.
- June 26th, 2009, 02:03 pm
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Bah, you're right. I used 19 trillion, heh. That would be quite a doozy.

Yes, must private plans have a $ limit that the insurer will cover, frequently around 2-7 million for many plans.

With regards to the medical services, that is where the trouble comes in ... With a private insurer, if they don't accpt the bill, the insured has the option to take them to court ... With the government as the insurer, it becomes a bit trickier.
- June 26th, 2009, 03:50 pm
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One problem is the massive campaign funds received from private insurers.

Another problem is that if it accepts everyone it will collect high-risk, high-cost people, which will make it too expensive, which will keep low-risk, low-cost people from participating.

Any way you slice it, the democrats appear to want to force people to carry insurance. This is likely a great deal for a few low-wage families, but a huge tax increase for younger singles. Scary.

Regarding the various quotes about “cost,” you need to be careful. That a plan costs the government $1.9 T or $4 T does not mean that is its true cost; those numbers are not including the mandated purchases, or the out-of-pocket costs borne directly by participants.

A lot of poor people still couldn’t afford care just because 80% of it is covered. We really need totally free care – and legally protected sick time.

Also, I have been reading that about 12 M of the 45 M + uninsured are undocumented aliens, and many of the rest are “without cover at some point during the year (e.g, between jobs)”, which is not the same as being totally without.
- June 26th, 2009, 07:01 pm
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We have the best health care system in the world,it's just not "fair" enough for the socialist engineers so they are willing to destroy it for some utopian ideal that will never equal it
- June 27th, 2009, 05:04 pm
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Bandmate wrote :
We have the best health care system in the world,it's just not "fair" enough for the socialist engineers so they are willing to destroy it for some utopian ideal that will never equal it
I wonder who will stop reading this article when Michael Moore is mentioned. I know he's an extremist nut. But, the article isn't about him or his beliefs:

www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html
- June 27th, 2009, 06:23 pm
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I always thought we needed a new health plan and still do. Our lack of medical Insurance for millions of working Americans is a global embarrassment.

But I'm not a proponent of rushing it thru and shoving it down our throats.
Last edited by outlaw1; June 28th, 2009 at 08:28 am. Reason: has anyone noticed the glitch when you try to edit, you see words have disappeared from your post? Then they magically re-ap
- June 28th, 2009, 08:27 am
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jcd1968 wrote :
I wonder who will stop reading this article when Michael Moore is mentioned. I know he's an extremist nut. But, the article isn't about him or his beliefs:

www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html

We have the best health care system in the world
- July 2nd, 2009, 05:05 am
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