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librarybabe librarybabe is online now
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00J wrote :
Another point is why the concern for people who don't have health insurance but get health care? Where is the concern for people who don't have car insurance but when in an accident can't get the cars fixed for free?
Not exactly the same thing. If I can't afford car insurance, I should not drive my car. I can car pool, buy a bike, walk, or move near a bus line and take public transport to work. If I can't afford health insurance, I can't choose to not get sick.

I wonder about the lack of sympathy for people who don't have adequate health coverage even though they work, considering the economic situation we are in. "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
- August 19th, 2009, 02:21 pm
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Rand_011 Rand_011 is online now
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I feel no sympathy whatsoever for those individuals that choose to go without health insurance and then get sick and get upset that they can't get the insurance now.

With regards to other countries for services ... The wait times I saw for Canada were staggering, with regards to specialists ...

With regards to physician error ... Are you serious?? You think if the government controls things doctors won't make mistakes??? I was recomended for bi-lateral knee surgery at 12 years old, saw a different doctor and he handed over a pair of $10 orthotics to solve the problem. There is no way that any given doctor, especially a gen. practice doctor, is gonig to know everything about anything.

And for those hoping to move to a MediCare-like system ... Just remember that MediCare has no stop loss, you pay 20% after your ~$1000 ded no matter the cost ... So you're $250k heart attack just cost you $50k ... If instead you'd gone with a private plan for a similar monthly cost you'd be out maybe $8k on the high end. Doctors hate MediCare, everyone I have spoken with on MediCare hates it, and I know I hate it, heh.
- August 19th, 2009, 03:36 pm
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bigfincat bigfincat is offline
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Rand_011 wrote :
I feel no sympathy whatsoever for those individuals that choose to go without health insurance and then get sick and get upset that they can't get the insurance now.

With regards to other countries for services ... The wait times I saw for Canada were staggering, with regards to specialists ...

With regards to physician error ... Are you serious?? You think if the government controls things doctors won't make mistakes??? I was recomended for bi-lateral knee surgery at 12 years old, saw a different doctor and he handed over a pair of $10 orthotics to solve the problem. There is no way that any given doctor, especially a gen. practice doctor, is gonig to know everything about anything.

And for those hoping to move to a MediCare-like system ... Just remember that MediCare has no stop loss, you pay 20% after your ~$1000 ded no matter the cost ... So you're $250k heart attack just cost you $50k ... If instead you'd gone with a private plan for a similar monthly cost you'd be out maybe $8k on the high end. Doctors hate MediCare, everyone I have spoken with on MediCare hates it, and I know I hate it, heh.
The people that I know that are on Medicare are on fixed incomes & do not like ANY expenses.

They, however, require a lot of care & take many medications that they could never in a million years afford.

They would not be as healthy as they are without Medicare.

Even though an older person may complain about Medicare what they are more likely complaining about is the overall cost of their care. They are not taking into account what they would pay without Medicare. It can see no way that they would pay less with private insurance... especially when we say that Dr's are reimbursed less for the same care.

A large majority of the nation's elderly would run out of money altogether before they die in payment for care. They then will fall into Medicaid. That is likely a reality unless you go from being perfectly healthy to sudden death.
- August 19th, 2009, 04:24 pm
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librarybabe wrote :
I worked part-time for almost 10 years. No one offered me any health coverage. Even if that was not typical, doesn't it say something for the affordability of those policies if people with low paying jobs aren't buying into the group coverage even when they can?

I work in a college, I guarantee you in the current economic climate, a lot of graduates are going to have some period where they have no health coverage.

Your results may indeed be somewhat unusual. I do believe that close to all employees in the US have access to group cover – the issue is that many of them do not have the 70 or 80% subsidy that employers have customarily offered (and are gradually walking away from.) Needless to say, without the subsidy, the cover “appears” expensive. I say appears, because by receiving employer-paid cover, people are receiving lower wages. They just fail to understand it this way.

In any case, people do not generally take part-time jobs without a reason – a reason which intrinsically tends to provide access to group cover itself (having a primary job, being a full time student, a mother.)

The vast majority of college graduates will get employment where employer-subsidized group policies are available, and most of them purchase one of the options offered by the employer.

I agree that a portion of people will be without COVER for a period of time, for instance between graduating and taking employment. This is a matter of personal choice which entails a very small, but nonetheless real, risk – that they will need costly care and not be covered. However, the predominant medical expense for young adults is motor vehicle accidents, and those are covered by auto insurance.

Is it a valid personal choice to forego insurance in favor of paying cash (or using a credit card) and investing the savings – thereby having the money to pay in cash. One of the things often ignored in this debate is that self-insurance is actually the fairest system – it is just somewhat impractical in effect because the establishment tries to rip these people off with high prices, and because few people have the discipline to save (and they are the same people disciplined in ways which minimizes their health consumption in the first place.)
- August 19th, 2009, 05:08 pm
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jcd1968 wrote :
I wonder who will stop reading this article when Michael Moore is mentioned. I know he's an extremist nut. But, the article isn't about him or his beliefs:

www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html

...and let me add this update to the above;

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/sidebyside.cfm

C'mon, people; don't let ignorance of the facts let you fall in to ASSuming the worst! basically,
-only those making $250K or more have to pay more for this
-we all save $$ on health care costs
-we all get better service. It won't be faster yet...it'll take a few years, but eventually we'll go from 37th in the world back to 1st (in longevity and health care) where we belong, IF WE PASS THE MOST AGGRESSIVE BILL.
- August 19th, 2009, 06:03 pm
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DennisWisconsin DennisWisconsin is offline
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We are taking a poll on the healthcare issue. This link will open the voting area in a different window but you will still be on eHarmony Advice. Each person is allowed one vote. It is multiple choice:

You do not have to join the group to vote:

VOTE ON HEALTHCARE NOW:
(Compromise Of the Left and Right On Healthcare?)Vote on the healthcare issue and see the results!
- August 19th, 2009, 11:44 pm
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Rand: It doesn't matter who's in charge of healthcare, mistakes will always be made. Human error, that's one of the reasons there are error margins in statistics. Docotors, technicians, nurses are not infalliable; but if they show due dilligence they shouldn't be punished because something goes wrong.

Happyandlight: My aunt had a similar experience. I could've been on anti-depressents for PMS but the doctor siad I could try excersicing regularly (school had turned me into a bump on a log) and eating more carbs and I've been doing a lot better!

Another plus when you don't have to worry about insurance is better palltive care. All the different ways to provide health care have flaws, I guess it comes down to what you consider the governments roll and the concessions you're willing to make. Isn't democracy about the needs of the many outwieghing the needs of the few? (without tyranizing the minority)
- August 20th, 2009, 12:02 pm
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hazmat hazmat is offline
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For those of you from other countries commenting, a question. (or four)

Do you have a sedentary population that refuses to take any responsibility for preventing their own bad health ?

An addictive population who funds drug dealers worldwide, while crippling your own healthcare system ?

A population with the mentality that everything will always turn out as they expect...or they'll sue ?

A government that has shown repeatedly that they can't run anything without massive red tape, cost overruns, and rampant waste of taxpayer money ?

Take a walk in our shoes. You might see things differently.
Last edited by hazmat; August 20th, 2009 at 05:04 pm.
- August 20th, 2009, 12:56 pm
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First let me say I did not bother to real all the post but I can guess the opinions are all over the place both for and against it. I agree the current system we have has its problems and I dont know what the answers are to fix it but I dont think a government run plan is a good idea. CAn anyone name one thing that the government has taken over that they have done a good job at running and have kept cost down at the same time.
- August 20th, 2009, 01:23 pm
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Rand_011 Rand_011 is online now
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Oh ... A couple tidbits of information slightly contrary to what the government is currently touting as 'fact'

a) If you have health insurance now, and have a major claim, the insurance company cannot raise your rates or cancel your coverage (referring to individual/family plans, through a company it varies a bit, but then the entire company would have a rate increase, not just a single employee)

b) The government will not reduce insurance premiums ... How do I know this you might ask ... Well, simply, ALL the rates and rating factors and criteria are sent to the various state departments and APPROVED before such rates can be passed onto the public.

And a question ... Has there been any discussion yet on cost? Based on age or location or ... ? Also with regards to benefits it seems that they all agree on a $5k out-of-pocket max ... But what is the deductible, copays, coinsurance ...

And a side note ... Unsure about the rest of the male population ... But how do you feel about having yourself covered for maternity expenses? Plans and premiums will not be gender specific and they must offer maternity benefits ... So, all you men under 50 will be subsidizing the premiums for women in your age range ... And the flip side for women ... All you women 50-65 will be subsidizng the premiums for the men in your age range that never took care of their bodies and refuse to see a doctor until they get rushed to the hospital.
- August 20th, 2009, 02:54 pm
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