Kestral is offline Kestral Post #41  August 3,2009, 6:34pm
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You are already up to your eyeballs in debt.
People with coverage are routinely denied, and the premiums you pay are then split into paying for lawyers (fighting you) and care providers (treating you), with alot left over for profits.
I'm suggesting, that you consider, just for a moment, putting all the of the same money into just paying for doctors and nurses.
...seems simple...
Also, that country thats neutral, with the banks, standing citizen army, chocolate, and the clocks....
...is Switzerland, not Sweden, but they both have alot of blonds.
Peace folks, I'm out.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #42  August 3,2009, 6:45pm
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Replying to Bigfincat:

We need to ration end-of-life care, to curtail high-cost, low-return spending on elderly persons, and others for whom extreme spending is not returning adequate quality of life.
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Last edited by D_Lion; August 3,2009 at 6:55pm.
 
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CJF is offline CJF Post #43  August 3,2009, 6:58pm
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graceventually wrote :
"Cash for Clunkers" fiasco?? Ford's got its profits higher than the previous month in over two years, and the average new car purchased is getting at least 9 MPG more than the car traded in.....how is that a fiasco? Seems to me it's doing what it was supposed to do.
The cash-for-clunkers program was supposed to last until November 2009. The 1 billion budget for this was spent in one week. Car dealers spend thousands of dollars advertising this offer with the ads still running even though there is no money left for it.

The program was to encourage people to buy less gas guzzling cars but car dealers still must destroy these clunkers.

Should we toss another couple of billion dollars at them?
Last edited by CJF; August 3,2009 at 7:03pm.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #44  August 3,2009, 7:15pm
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I would not so much as suggest squeezing doctors.

I am thinking that prices would have to fall due to free market forces anyhow. If the government was not involved at the moment then doctors obviously could not charge their patients what they are currently. The could not charge what people could not pay so they would have to discount prices regardless.

I suppose that doctors in a real free market could choose to only treat the wealthy & charge whatever that they wanted. This is seen in the manner that some doctors refuse to take on Medicare patients.

On another note, many of the things that you suggest make sense... it may not be pretty but there are no easy solutions.

I also think that since the US health care is the best in the world then it will ultimately be better than the others worldwide because it started in a better place.

Further, there is NO reason why any reformations that we make in this plan CANNOT be tweaked & adjusted over the years to solve future problems that come about.

In order to solve a problem you have to put a plan in place. There is no plan that is going to solve every issue that we have. Corporations do this all of the time. They put their plan in place & then deal with the MANY issues that come up as they see them. This is how the private sector would do this so why not government.

Doing nothing gets us nowhere & can only diminish our quality of life.
 
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hazmat is offline hazmat Post #45  August 3,2009, 7:15pm
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graceventually wrote :
"Cash for Clunkers" fiasco?? Ford's got its profits higher than the previous month in over two years, and the average new car purchased is getting at least 9 MPG more than the car traded in.....how is that a fiasco? Seems to me it's doing what it was supposed to do.

It's just like giving a kid some sugar. Sure, Ford's profits are up, but they won't stay up. This is an artificial inflation, with those still in good financial shape taking advantage of a good deal. Next year and the year after when they would have normally bought a car, crickets will be sounding at Ford.

And only a last minute money grab saved the program. Badly mismanaged.
 
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hazmat is offline hazmat Post #46  August 3,2009, 7:32pm
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Big Fin...C'mon...You know why prices for health care are so much.

Ask any doctor how much they pay for malpractice insurance due to our "sue happy" population.

Hang out at an emergency room and watch the illegals pour in every night.

Ride a fire engine and watch the same homeless guys/gals call 911 every time they get too hot or too cold or too wet and want a $600 taxpayer paid ambulance ride to the hospital so they can sleep in a climate controlled place at $1000 bucks a night. The same people 10-12 times a month !!!

They charge so much, because so many don't pay and so many abuse the system.
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #47  August 3,2009, 7:51pm
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Kestral wrote :
Also, that country thats neutral, with the banks, standing citizen army, chocolate, and the clocks....
...is Switzerland, not Sweden, but they both have alot of blonds.
Peace folks, I'm out.
I meant Sweden, look up its history =). They were neutral in both WWII and the Cold War and were primarily a conscription based country. Switzerland is another good example, though.

But hey, it's Europe, all those countries are smaller than states anyway

Jacquesne
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #48  August 3,2009, 8:05pm
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hazmat wrote :
Big Fin...C'mon...You know why prices for health care are so much.

Ask any doctor how much they pay for malpractice insurance due to our "sue happy" population.

Hang out at an emergency room and watch the illegals pour in every night.

Ride a fire engine and watch the same homeless guys/gals call 911 every time they get too hot or too cold or too wet and want a $600 taxpayer paid ambulance ride to the hospital so they can sleep in a climate controlled place at $1000 bucks a night. The same people 10-12 times a month !!!

They charge so much, because so many don't pay and so many abuse the system.
I don't know a single doctor that isn't extremely wealthy so I do not feel bad about the premiums that they pay. There is much greed in a medical office & I have seen it first hand. Many offices will continue to take on new patients at an alarming rate when they truely cannot handle the ones that they have. The care for each patient suffers badly. Most people do not wish to change offices & probably have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. They will deal with below average care because they don't know that they have an alternative. It is very likely that they actually don't have a much better alternative because most offices behave in the same way. Medical offices are corporations & work to maximize profits while only offering as little care as possible to each patient. The doctors ration our care.

At least where I am from, unless you have an emergency you are going to wait a very long time to hear from your doctor after you leave a message. Actually you are probably not going to hear from the actual doctor for that matter.

I do think that tort reform of some sort is a good idea BUT there is a huge problem with this idea. It is redistributing wealth & negatively effects lawyers in an arbitrary way. Are lawyers to earn less than doctors?? More than doctors?? Who decides??

I know of those issues with the homeless & illegal immigrants but that has nothing to do with our health care system per se. It does have to do with our mentality as a society to not deny care. That is a separate issue altogether.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #49  August 3,2009, 10:07pm
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graceventually wrote :
"Cash for Clunkers" fiasco?? Ford's got its profits higher than the previous month in over two years, and the average new car purchased is getting at least 9 MPG more than the car traded in.....how is that a fiasco? Seems to me it's doing what it was supposed to do.
Um how hard is it to give away money? It's not fixing anything once it's over people have no reason to buy a new car if there car is working fine.
 
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LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #50  August 3,2009, 11:01pm

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D_Lion wrote :
To health care generally, we’re better off with a single payer, tax-funded system. As much as some dislike it ideologically, it is the simplest, least costly option. The only significant savings are in chopping of the management, administrative, and tort bloat of the private sector, and rationing.
That is completely inaccurate. The main cause of the high cost of healthcare is government intervention -mandates. And having a single-payer would actually increase the cost due to inefficiency. It is completely unbelievable to me that people believe that the government can be efficient in anything when everything they manage is completely inefficient and wasteful. Have you ever tried to call Medicare? I have. Have you ever called the IRS for the health plans they govern? I have.

This whole idea of "healthcare" reform is a farce. There is no reform in any of the ideas being discussed.

What people fail to understand is that sick people cost more so they are rated higher. But people don't want to acknowledge that because it just sounds so mean!! So unfair! It is not their fault they are sick! Still does not change the fact that their healthcare costs more. So let's rate everyone the same - and Wow!!! insurance costs so much!! Duh!!

Think of it this way - should you have the same car insurance rates as a 16-year old? No - that is ridiculous - your risk is lower.

And again, if you look at the numbers of the real uninsured (after removing illegal aliens, people who are eligible but too lazy to sign up for state insurance and the ones that make enough but choose not to be covered under a group or individual plan - you are looking at about 5 million people). This whole thing is a joke.

And why stop at healthcare. Why not have the government fund housing? It is better for me, health-wise, if the government put a roof over my head instead of giving me health insurance.

And we should stop using the word healthcare since what we are talking about is health insurance. No one is denied healthcare in America if they don't have insurance. It is against the law so completely untrue that people believe this.
 
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