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Rand_011 Rand_011 is offline
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jcd1968 wrote :
I wonder who will stop reading this article when Michael Moore is mentioned. I know he's an extremist nut. But, the article isn't about him or his beliefs:

www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html
I read through the article ... And was able to see my way through the smoke and propaganda to the very end.

The glaring one being the touted 45 million uninsured that liberals love to use to hype up the situation ... Roughly a third are elligible and just don't bother applying for the free coverage already provided ... Roughly a third make 60k+ a year and just don't want to pay for it, they would rather buy their 50inch plasma screen tv's ... Of the remaining third, about a sixth are children and eligible for care once again ... So we are left with about ~8 million people that we need to work on getting insured ... That is a problem, yes, but it is not a 45 million person problem.

Then there's access to care and follow-up treatment ... I have viewed results for Canada and the numbers are staggering ... But then that is what happens under an HMO system.
- July 2nd, 2009, 09:53 am
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kittencaboodle kittencaboodle is offline
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You probably know more than me about the uninsured. But it seems to me that the ones unable to get insurence would be higher. Every man and woman who works in a fast food/convenience store/some retail stores etc. don't have insurance and don't make enough for private policies. I find it hard to keep all those people under your figure. (I know that some fast-food people are offered insurance, but not usually unless they are management, same for retail and gas stations,etc.)
- July 2nd, 2009, 12:18 pm
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Either way ... That is the basic breakdown for the uninsured ... These aren't my made up numbers ... There have been quite a few studies into the unisured market and these are the results ... Just about every health insurance company is trying to devise a plan to entice the 15 million some-odd affluent indviduals to buy it ... And just about every medical insurance company is trying to devise a plan to tap into the 8 million some-odd that can't afford current plans and are not elligible for federal assistance.
- July 2nd, 2009, 01:55 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is offline
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Kittencaboodle,

This is misleading, I think.

Low paid jobs nearly always have group policies available to workers, they just do not provide the same level of employer-paid portion as professionals and union workers get. Consequently, many people appear not to buy into the group coverage.

Many people working retail do in fact have health cover; they are young people still covered by parents, old people covered by medicare, or eligible for subsidized care due to their income and / or having dependants.

I think the 45 M comes from self-reports in the 2000 census. It is expected to be over 50 M in 2010.
- July 3rd, 2009, 01:03 pm
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I was just talking about my own experiences, when I worked retail I had insurence after I was made a manager. However everyone under full time/manager status had part time status, thus no medical coverage offered. And I know that most of the smaller store in the mall did not offer insurence to anyone but management. I think that medicaid needs to be completely re-worked. The republicans have picked it over so much that most physicians won't even accept two of the three plans. They have reduced the amount so much that the cost to those without insurence has risen to astronomical amounts. Bush sent through several bills to reduce the amount spent by medicaid and medicare until it has become a shadow of the great plan it used to be. Instead of making a new money guzzling plan I think we should change the status of the ones currently being abused. Right now, if you work and make nothing and are not eligable for insurence you cannot get coverage from the gov't. but if you don't work, get money, food, and housing from the gov't and are in no way trying to help yourself THEN you can get insurence too. It's completely backwards and needs to be changed. I do not think it is the best insurence, maybe at one time, but not today.
- July 8th, 2009, 08:48 pm
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It just seems to bad memory to call a comprehensive medical plan socialist when the same fundamental idea is how you pay for your military... you all chip in and together and you get something none of you could pay for individually.
The insurance companies you pay money to, do make a profit, while at the same time hiring lots of people who's only job is to find reasons to deny claims and coverage...
We in Canada do not by any measure have the best system, but we don't go bankrupt for getting sick, or having an accident... for every horror story example I hear of how bad it supposedly is here, I hear of millions there.
...somebody keeps saying that you have the best system.. as though there is nothing new to learn under the sun....
- August 2nd, 2009, 02:44 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is offline
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National defense is completely different from health care consumption. Defense is clearly a public good, where the benefit cannot be traced to you or I as benefiting from it.

Health care is something we purchase, due to our individual wants, and it is nearly totally traceable to an individual. Opinion varies as to the degree that there may be a “positive externality” to health spending, in greater economic productivity, for instance.

However, since the US has a superior economic performance to European nations and Japan, to say nothing of the non-democratic nations, it does appear that if there is any collective benefit to single-payer, it is not visible in economies.

For sure, I agree that a true, tax funded, single-payer system will reduce individual catastrophes, but at what cost to our economy and other desires? I also agree that our current insurance and industry bloat are getting fat off the system we have now, but are we likely to curtail this money trough (which is one of the largest campaign funding sources)?

Personally, I disagree with yet more taxes on people like me (younger and single), who are already disproportionately taxed, to provide yet more benefit to single mothers and older people, who are already disproportionately subsidized.

I fear the likely Washington consensus even more: keeping the industry bloat and adding mandatory cover. This is the most costly, least efficient, least equitable solution.
- August 2nd, 2009, 03:00 pm
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He who dies with the most toys does not win, paticularly when he dies earlier from treatable health conditions.. like you do in the states.. you folks are 50th on the list in terms of longevity, and 38th in terms if infant mortality, all while spending twice as much per capita as the next closest country.
Spout some more catch phrases if it makes you feel better, but the facts remain.
Also as far as your defense budget goes, there's alot of people around the world who would dissagree with it being good for people.
I guess its easier to thump you chest in nationalist pride and rally around a 30 second sound byte then realise that there are others on this planet who are thinking about these things, and that reguardless of what you're being told, some of them are getting it right despite you.
- August 2nd, 2009, 03:46 pm
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The 47 million uninsured Americans thrown out there by the administration is grossly distorted. According to the latest numbers thrown around, the breakdown is actually...
-12 million illegal aliens
-44% of the remaining 35 million are 20-30 somethings who don't have insurance because, though they can afford it, choose to spend their money on other things. (like homes, boats, new cars, etc.)
That leaves about 20 million, and half of those only need to apply to Medicare/Medicaid to receive benefits.

Don't believe the hype.
- August 2nd, 2009, 04:30 pm
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The health care system does need to be overhauled. If the government wants to help, enforce the laws in place. Stop the tens of billions lost every year to Medicare/Medicaid fraud.

Stop the waste in the system.

Limit lawsuit awards that force doctors to do unnecessary and expensive tests because they're scared to death of malpractice lawsuits.
Focus on prevention efforts to promote good health, instead of treating every little symptom with drugs.
- August 2nd, 2009, 04:48 pm
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