Question: Why is socialism bad?


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The1Tomcat is offline The1Tomcat Post #1  June 18,2009, 4:29pm
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I'm attempting to understand the American mentality towards the buzz word "socialism."

Do most American's understand what socialism or socialist concepts are? (Do I for that matter?) It just seems that every time the word comes up people come out with pitchforks and torches to denounce anyone who is a "socialist" as the worst thing ever and synonymous with communism.

Then countries like Canada or Britain (or most of Europe for that matter) are brought up as examples of why any socialist ideas should ever be used in the US. What has been so wrong with these other countries as to dismiss their ideas and policies outright?

Also, I'm wondering why the feeling on government oversight or government control of certain key elements of society are such bad buzz words as well.

Please don't take this question sarcastically. I want to honestly understand where people are coming from with their views and opinions on these matters.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #2  June 18,2009, 7:05pm
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I think a lot of it is cultural. A lot of Americans have the mentality of "NO ONE can tell ME what to do". Individuality will be the downfall of the US. Just my 2 cents.
 
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The1Tomcat is offline The1Tomcat Post #3  June 18,2009, 7:22pm
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dwreese182 wrote :
I think a lot of it is cultural. A lot of Americans have the mentality of "NO ONE can tell ME what to do". Individuality will be the downfall of the US. Just my 2 cents.
I don't understand the idea that you lose individuality under a democratic socialist government. I don't think you'll find any Canadian or British citizens saying that the government is oppressing their choices or individualism on any level.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #4  June 18,2009, 7:50pm
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Because it's not what our country was founded on. We are supposed to be a republic unfortunately it's turned into a democracy. If 51% vote to take away your house they can. I have heard the British complain about their lack of rights. Look what happened with their firearms.

As far as regulation and oversight the government doesn't know how to do it.
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #5  June 18,2009, 8:04pm
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Oh, you wacky Canadians and your government health care and stuff!

The word socialism was hardly in the discourse until the recent election. Now there is a contingent on the right in the U.S. that brandishes it about as a 4-letter word in an effort to invoke fear and foster dissent against the current administration. It is primarily fear mongering as far as I can tell, because the likelihood that the U.S. is going to change its basic form of government is, well, not big. But, it has become quite the rallying cry nonetheless...

There are some folks (including several who post here) who simply hate government no matter what it does, and who believe that virtually any time that government has its fingers in something it is a bad thing. Taxes are seen as robbery by the government to feed a bloated system that gives little back for what it takes. The government is in fact viewed as the enemy of the people much moreso than it is "of" the people.

Well, that's what I've picked up from reading these forums, anyway...lol.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #6  June 18,2009, 8:45pm
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neardc wrote :
Taxes are seen as robbery by the government
Not a big fan of taxes myself. I think it is a bit excessive how much they take from me. They should just tax everyone else except me and I'll be happy. Wonder what, or who, you have to do to get exempt from income taxes? Hey, you live in DC right? You have any inside info? Maybe the secret is in the top of that tall skinny monument!
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #7  June 18,2009, 8:57pm
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What's on top of that tall skinny monument is a point; which seems to be what some people feel they've sat upon when they've paid their taxes.....
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #8  June 18,2009, 9:20pm
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Socialism, as I understand it, is when most if not all resources are controlled by the federalized government in order to make sure all citizens are adequately supported. The idea is popular because it takes the idea of "mob rule" and reverses it to where those with the most education and interest in the people (in this case the government) make the decisions regarding how resources are spent.

"Universal health care" is not, in itself, socialist. If universal health care is voted on then it is technically democratic. Socialism is not a matter of the programs themselves but how those things are decided. If someone in the upper echelon of government says "there should be universal health care" and then it happens regardless of the people then that is socialist.

The difficulty is that the reverse is true. For instance if it were simply decided that all Americans were permitted to carry shotguns at school and there was no vote that would be a socialist decision. Why? The government made the choice without the consultation of the people.

And this is why socialism is such a "bad word" in America (at least for those who actually bother to differentiate between "liberal" and "socialist" which are very different concepts). Socialism posits a system without representation of the people and considering a slogan you may have heard back in grade school ("No taxation without representation!" ring any bells?) the American people are understandably reluctant to consider such a form of government.

If you want to know my theory as to why socialism fails so purely it's because socialism cannot exist. What does that mean? Socialism has conditions which are necessary in order for it to exist and one of the key conditions is one where the government does not abuse its power. As most people who have studied political science or history (again typically political history) could tell you the effort is involved in making a government that isn't corrupt not the other way around.

This correlates with my "power theory" in which politics is the distribution of power. When you place all the power in the hands of the government, an organization, you place all the power in the hands of a minority. Once the minority has control over the majority you end up with abuse of power. I'm not saying the majority never abuses power but the more the power is diluted the less likely severe abuse is to happen.

Think of it this way. You have five people at the table playing, say, poker. There are 50 chips. One guy has 30 chips and the other four have 5 chips each. Who controls the flow of the game? Who can afford to take the risks, throw off the power balance, and decide who has to buy the beer? Probably not one of the guys with 5 chips.

Now give each person 10 chips and can that guy still throw his virtual weight around? Can he control the other four and manipulate them as easily? Probably not. The power is equal. It's diluted. A government system that attempts to spread out the power tends to be empowering to the people instead of the opposite.

Humans instinctively understand the concept of power. We can tell the difference between our money, our land, our clothes, our friends, our stuff. There's a difference in value between your car and a car you borrow from a family member. Even if the borrowed car is a more expensive car you still tend to prefer you own. Why? Because that car is your power. It's your transportation power and if, say, the DMV owned your car and just handed it out to you based on your socioeconomic class and available resources you probably wouldn't be as comfortable with the vehicle.

Socialism creates a system where the majority, the individual, and the people have effectively no power because all resources are owned by the government. The federal government has all the power and you end up with effectively a dictatorship or oligarchy because all the power becomes localized in one small group. Whomever runs the group has all the power. You can talk theory all you want but if a government system does work at a practical level there really isn't much point to it. Anarchy and communism work in theory. Practically they fail miserably just as socialism does.

One last thing. Canada is not a socialist country. They're technically a monarchy with a parliamentary system very similar to the British system of government (no surprise there). There is a Queen of Canada (Her Majesty Elizabeth II) and it's a federal system. Having programs like universal health care and transportation do not make Canada a socialist government! Their monarch may take issue with that idea .

That's my understanding of it, anyway. Hope that helps!

Jacquesne
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #9  June 18,2009, 9:24pm
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The1Tomcat wrote :
I don't understand the idea that you lose individuality under a democratic socialist government. I don't think you'll find any Canadian or British citizens saying that the government is oppressing their choices or individualism on any level.
Again, just in case you missed it, Canada and Britain are not socialist governments by their own definition nor most political definitions. They are federalist monarchies and deal heavily with elected political parties. That being said the value system in which monarchy is acceptable is more likely to accept the common understanding of "socialist" (in other words, social programs owned by the government, which isn't exactly what the term means) than a government and people who historically fought against the very concept of a monarchy.

Still, it's a good question!

Jacquesne
 
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kittencaboodle is offline kittencaboodle Post #10  June 18,2009, 9:35pm
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I say that our country is more socialist than democratic anyway. When was the last time anyone asked you if you wanted any of the laws that support the richest coorporations and/or people in the country passed or not? We may not be completely socialists because the people in control are not exactly the people in politics but the people paying our politicians are definately not looking out or listening to us little Americans.
Last edited by kittencaboodle; June 18,2009 at 9:36pm. Reason: spelling errors
 
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