Question: Why is socialism bad?


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snce66 is offline snce66 Post #361  February 12,2010, 2:48am
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Socialism bad? Whats bad is our federal banking system.
They print fiat money that we pay interest on. The only
thing that backs the ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR is the
taxing of the American people in the form of the social
security tax. We have been lied to when they first past the
social security tax act, along with the Buck act in 1939.
The IRS is a fraud unto itself. They are not even based
in the United States. Puerto Rico is where they reside.
 
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NorthernByBirthSouthernByGrace is offline NorthernByBirthSouthernByGrace Post #362  February 13,2010, 5:01am
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Socialism would put an end to the "American Dream" and the right of the true pursuit of happiness.

England & Canada....have some of the worst health care systems, who historically have turned to the U.S. for medical treatment. Talk to a British person, and they'll likely share how they wait months for treatment that we wait days or weeks for here.

How can we expect the most talented citizens to perform at their best in their best-fit careers, when their best supports folks who refuse to even try. Talented doctors who have the lives of people at stake every day should be paid accordingly. With much knowledge comes much responsibility & accountability. I'd rather see a talented doctor who I know is paid a great salary, than one commissioned by the government.

Also the human factor....I'm not trying to over-generalize...but I feel frustrated to think that I have to made sacrifices in my budget so that I can pay insurance, etc....when I can look around & see folks that instead of budgeting health care, purchase some of the things I sacrificed....and then expect me to pay for their insurance! The something-for-nothing attitude, unfortunately, is something that seems to come out of socialism.

I can see why folks arrive at the idea of socialism as a good thing, b/c in theory it could solve some problems. But it goes against everything our country was founded on. Big government is simply not freedom.
 
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tweet37 is offline tweet37 Post #363  February 13,2010, 10:20am
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snce66 wrote :
S They are not even based
in the United States. Puerto Rico is where they reside.
Ummm....Puerto Rico is a territory of the U.S.
 
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Joti is offline Joti Post #364  February 14,2010, 7:16am
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The1Tomcat wrote :
I'm attempting to understand the American mentality towards the buzz word "socialism."

Do most American's understand what socialism or socialist concepts are? (Do I for that matter?) It just seems that every time the word comes up people come out with pitchforks and torches to denounce anyone who is a "socialist" as the worst thing ever and synonymous with communism.

.
What most Americans call commun ism/socialism/Marxism is actually Keynism
John Maynard Keynes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #365  February 14,2010, 10:55pm
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Joti wrote :
What most Americans call commun ism/socialism/Marxism is actually Keynism
John Maynard Keynes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Communism is an economic system based on Karl Marx's criticism of capitalism, specifically on how profit is derived solely on paying laborers less than the value of their work. This is a gross simplification but "Marxism" isn't really based on an economic system derived from the works of Marx because Karl Marx didn't actually write about what should be done, he only wrote on what he saw as fatal flaws in the capitalist system (and many of his points are quite valid).

Socialism is primarily a system oriented around policy rather than economics; the economic aspects are mainly relegated to paying for the implementation of these polices. The "spectrum" is more of a democracy vs. socialism rather than a capitalism vs. socialism...you can have a capitalist socialism (China) or a democratic communism (more rare, but Laos is close).

I would argue that much of the 20th century U.S. economic system was based more on the work of John Kenneth Galbraith than Keynes. On the other hand since Galbraith was an avid supporter of Keynes I suppose you could trace it back to him although I don't believe Keynes would have gone the same way Galbraith took his economic theory. Either way I associate this economic system more to the ideas of progressivist theory rather than socialism.

The key difference between progressivism and socialism is that socialism is government programs without the influence of the people. Progressivism postulates that societies problems can be corrected or improved by government intervention, yet unlike socialism, these policies are voted for through the democratic republican system. Incidentally this is why socialism fails as a political system in the U.S., what we call "socialism" really isn't.

For example let's say a community votes to create a public school for the children in that community; a bill is written, representatives vote on it, and the plan is executed. A school, funded by the community, is created. This is not socialism.

This is arguably progressivist but not socialist. For it to be socialist the community's governing body would get together and decide that the community needs a new school. The dictate would be passed, the school built, and if everyone in the community doesn't want the school tough luck. That school fits the master plan and the educated members of the government know what's best for that community.

This works in many places in the world, specifically smaller communities with a collectivist culture. There's nothing inherently wrong with it; if everyone in the community agrees with the government that the school should be made, even without their input, no harm, no foul. Since collectivist cultures put a high emphasis on individual success as being dependent on the success of the group this mentality works.

The reason it doesn't in the U.S. is for two main reasons. First and foremost the dominate culture in the U.S. is individualist, not collectivist. An individual's success in life is measured by what they do. If your company fails but you go on to a better job, great! Way to take the initiative. In a collectivist culture you'd be considered trash because your company was trash. Japan is an excellent example and one of the reasons changing companies there is so rare in comparison to, say, the U.S.

The other reason is because the U.S. is diverse. Collectivist cultures, with few exceptions, don't work well with diversity. What's good for one part of the U.S. is simply not good for the rest of the country. In a free-spirited University of California campus maybe the idea of legal marijuana sounds great. A small, religious town in Utah may disagree. Under socialism this decision is made for you and no matter what choice is made it's going to be bad for someone.

I don't believe socialism is "bad" because it's originated from the 5th layer of Dante's Inferno and designed by the devil himself. I believe it's a bad idea for our country in the same way I believe drunk driving is a bad idea. Can you do it? Yes. Do a lot of people do it all the time? Sure.

Just don't be surprised when a wreck happens. What seems like a good idea at the time may not always be the best.

Jacquesne
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #366  February 15,2010, 7:40am
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Joti wrote :
What most Americans call commun ism/socialism/Marxism is actually Keynism
John Maynard Keynes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I wouldn't group the three together to begin with. I read the article and I wouldn't think Keynism is even remotely close to communism or socialism. Spending more than what you earn? That's the problem now isn't it? I get his theory, but it is irresponsible on a personal level and a government level, if you ask me.
 
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mrflyer is offline mrflyer Post #367  April 6,2010, 11:43am
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The1Tomcat wrote :
Do most American's understand what socialism or socialist concepts are? (Do I for that matter?) It just seems that every time the word comes up people come out with pitchforks and torches to denounce anyone who is a "socialist" as the worst thing ever and synonymous with communism.
It was Karl Marx himself who called socialism the path to communism. The only real difference is how much of the economy the government controls.

Many of the communist countries (like the USSR) have called themselves socialist- that's what the second S stands for.

That should tell you something.
 
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cameracollector is offline cameracollector Post #368  April 25,2010, 5:15pm
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Jacquesne wrote :
Communism is an economic system based on Karl Marx's criticism of capitalism, specifically on how profit is derived solely on paying laborers less than the value of their work. This is a gross simplification but "Marxism" isn't really based on an economic system derived from the works of Marx because Karl Marx didn't actually write about what should be done, he only wrote on what he saw as fatal flaws in the capitalist system (and many of his points are quite valid).

Socialism is primarily a system oriented around policy rather than economics; the economic aspects are mainly relegated to paying for the implementation of these polices. The "spectrum" is more of a democracy vs. socialism rather than a capitalism vs. socialism...you can have a capitalist socialism (China) or a democratic communism (more rare, but Laos is close).

I would argue that much of the 20th century U.S. economic system was based more on the work of John Kenneth Galbraith than Keynes. On the other hand since Galbraith was an avid supporter of Keynes I suppose you could trace it back to him although I don't believe Keynes would have gone the same way Galbraith took his economic theory. Either way I associate this economic system more to the ideas of progressivist theory rather than socialism.

The key difference between progressivism and socialism is that socialism is government programs without the influence of the people. Progressivism postulates that societies problems can be corrected or improved by government intervention, yet unlike socialism, these policies are voted for through the democratic republican system. Incidentally this is why socialism fails as a political system in the U.S., what we call "socialism" really isn't.

For example let's say a community votes to create a public school for the children in that community; a bill is written, representatives vote on it, and the plan is executed. A school, funded by the community, is created. This is not socialism.

This is arguably progressivist but not socialist. For it to be socialist the community's governing body would get together and decide that the community needs a new school. The dictate would be passed, the school built, and if everyone in the community doesn't want the school tough luck. That school fits the master plan and the educated members of the government know what's best for that community.

This works in many places in the world, specifically smaller communities with a collectivist culture. There's nothing inherently wrong with it; if everyone in the community agrees with the government that the school should be made, even without their input, no harm, no foul. Since collectivist cultures put a high emphasis on individual success as being dependent on the success of the group this mentality works.

[snipped]

Jacquesne
Jacquesne,

A well written post, as always. But why do you ignore the very real, and very workable, combination of democratic socialism? These are not opposing ideals, as you suggest. We see it work quite well in Scandanavia, although it is more parliamentary in nature elsewhere in Europe. It embraces free elections, and the polity chooses to enact policies that distribute resources more evenly (not equally, but perhaps more equitably).

Just wondering.

CC
 
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jacques102 is offline jacques102 Post #369  April 29,2010, 3:42pm
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Jacquesne wrote :
I don't believe socialism is "bad" because it's originated from the 5th layer of Dante's Inferno and designed by the devil himself. I believe it's a bad idea for our country in the same way I believe drunk driving is a bad idea. Can you do it? Yes. Do a lot of people do it all the time? Sure.

Just don't be surprised when a wreck happens. What seems like a good idea at the time may not always be the best.

Jacquesne
Very good write up there. Could not have explained that better.
 
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cameracollector is offline cameracollector Post #370  April 30,2010, 3:59pm
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Hmmm. I'd have thought y'all would be thinking more along the lines of the 8th or 9th circles of hell. The 5th circle is pretty tame, really.
 
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