List of socialist countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we're going to quote from Wikipedia =).

I didn't find Canada or Australia on that list!

They are, however, on this list...Socialist International - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

A closer examination of Australia's ALP, Australian Labor Party, places the system much closer to social democracy than democratic socialism. The dominate force in the current ALP is the "Labor Right" which supports less of the "socialist" policies you've described already. The current leader of the party, Kevin Rudd, describes himself as "basically a conservative when it comes to questions of public financial management" (Australian Labor Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Canada's "socialist" party, the NDP (New Democratic Party), is not the main force in Canadian politics. I'm not certain how a government can be socialist when it's elected political party is not socialist. Either way its list of policies (New Democratic Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) are pretty much identical to the policies we see in our own Democratic Party here in the U.S. (not surprising) so again I would argue they are primarily liberal instead of socialist.

Britain, incidentally, is not on either list.

I would challenge you to read that Wikipedia article you quoted a bit closer. Note specifically the parts about "Modern socialism originated in the late 18th-century intellectual and working class political movement that criticized the effects of industrialization and private ownership on society." In other words, these things would be owned publicly...another word for owned by the government.

"Socialists inspired by the Soviet model of economic development have advocated the creation of centrally planned economies directed by a state that owns all the means of production."

"Many social democrats, particularly in European welfare states, refer to themselves as "socialists", introducing a degree of ambiguity to the understanding of what the term means." (this is what I believe you are talking about when you use the term "socialist").

"Economically, socialism denotes an economic system of state ownership and/or worker ownership of the means of production and distribution."

"In socialism, Max Weber saw acceleration of the rationalization started in capitalism. As a critic of socialism, he warned that placing the economy entirely in the state's bureaucratic control would result in an 'iron cage of future bondage'"

"Ludwig von Mises argued that a socialist economy was not possible at all, because of the impossibility of rational pricing of capital goods in a socialist economy since the state is the only owner of the capital goods. Hayek further argued that the social control over distribution of wealth and private property advocated by socialists cannot be achieved without reduced prosperity for the general populace, and a loss of political and economic freedoms."

Hayek's views were echoed by Winston Churchill in an electoral broadcast prior to the British general election of 1945:

. . . a socialist policy is abhorrent to the British ideas of freedom. Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the object worship of the state. It will prescribe for every one where they are to work, what they are to work at, where they may go and what they may say. Socialism is an attack on the right to breathe freely. No socialist system can be established without a political police. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.^[55]"

I'm not saying these are the right arguments or ideas about socialism. These reasons are, however, some of the main reasons why Americans do not like socialism. We don't like it because we like owning our cars. Private business ownership is what many Americans consider the "American Dream" (the American Dream is not a universal concept...I'm not sure what exactly people are referring to when they use this term).

It's not that we're cold-hearted or enjoy watching other people suffer in the streets while we buy our fifth flat screen TV for our bathroom so we don't have to miss part of the game while on the pot. In 1997 the U.S. gave over 13 billion dollars to other countries in foreign aid and in 2001 it was close to $15 billion. We're one of the top four countries in the world for foreign aid.

You can call it selfish trade policy all you want but you could argue that about all charity work. Complaining about what is effectively free money given to nations is sort of childish to me and although the poorest countries often do not receive the highest amount of aid I would argue that's because many of those countries are controlled by dictators and the money wouldn't get to the people anyway. Then again I would argue all forms of charity, including "socialist programs," are selfish.

After all socialism is based on the idea that the rich have stuff and the poor don't so it's the rich people's fault the poor don't have money. So Robin Hood it...take from the rich and give to the poor, thus people will be more equal. Unsurprisingly this is very popular among the working class and poor. Duh. Who prefers those fake bell curves in school (the one where you only go up in grade), the students who get perfect or near perfect scores or the ones who have their C's and D's raised to B's and C's? I'll give you two guesses and the second one doesn't count.

Is the current U.S. system perfect? Heck no. I doubt many would argue that it is. Is socialism, where the government owns everything and makes the most educated decisions (primarily the decision to have the rich support the poor but now we're getting technical), a better solution?

I don't think so. And there are millions of Americans who agree with me. So when we think of socialism that's pretty much what we're thinking of. I don't want to rely on the government's charity. I've worked hard for what I have and I'm proud of that. To me "welfare" is simply another term for being in the government's debt. Living on society's dollar and thus under their standards and their rules.

No thanks.

Jacquesne