Are the stimulus packages O's WMDs?


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saulgoode is offline saulgoode Post #1  June 9,2009, 1:35am
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609/...obama_stimulus

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And for the first time, the administration admitted the economic forecasts it used to sell the stimulus were overly optimistic.

"At the time, our forecast seemed reasonable," said Vice President Joe Biden's top economic adviser, Jared Bernstein, explaining that the White House underestimated the scope of the recession. "Now, looking back, it was clearly too optimistic."
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Sounds a lot like Bush with WMDs in Iraq, eh. An administration, making decisions based on data they have on-hand, which later turns out to be exaggerated in order to achieve a political ends.

I'll say I never was surprised that Bush exaggerated WMDs. I'm also not surprised O exaggerated the effects of the stimulus.

This was just a means to achieve their political ends.

And check out O's rebuttal:

Q

Obama shot back at skeptics during Monday's Cabinet meeting.

"Now, I know that there's some who, despite all evidence to the contrary, still don't believe in the necessity and promise of this recovery act," he said.
"And I would suggest to them that they talk to the companies who, because of this plan, scrapped the idea of laying off employees and, in fact, decided to hire employees. Tell that to the Americans who received that unexpected call saying, 'Come back to work.'"
Q

Again he rebukes his critics not with data or valid points or even a comprehensible argument, but by saying they're full of GIBBERISH!

Even Bush had smarter quips than this regarding Iraq, and he was an idiot redneck, right. At least Bush would quote some dang facts.

- Saul
 
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tbesq is offline tbesq Post #2  June 9,2009, 3:47am
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No, the stimulus package is not like a WMD -- it's not being used to justify an unnecessary war.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #3  June 9,2009, 5:28am
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Gasp! You mean to say when Bawney Fwank said the stimulus was working it really wasn't? So how much is each job going to cost exactly?
 
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saulgoode is offline saulgoode Post #4  June 9,2009, 8:10am
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WMDs were used to justify the US securing a ME source of oil. This was a political move, everyone knew it, everyone saw it, and Bush et al used WMDs to scare the citizens into supporting this ends.

An economic crisis was used to justify the US social/nationalizing private banks and manufacturing. This is a political move, everyone knows it, everyone sees it, and Obama et al are using the economy to scare the citizens into supporting their ends.

Both Bush and O used the same tactic: fear and exaggeration.

Different ends, perhaps, but the same means, and the media served up a good Bush baste-n-roast for four years running.

This article I posted was ~not~ Obama-friendly. It got me to wondering if the stim packages and O's exaggeration of the economy to justify a socialist run on industry and banking, is going to come back and bite him, same as Bush's run on Iraqi oil bit him.

- Saul
 
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tbesq is offline tbesq Post #5  June 9,2009, 8:43am
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saulgoode wrote :
WMDs were used to justify the US securing a ME source of oil. This was a political move, everyone knew it, everyone saw it, and Bush et al used WMDs to scare the citizens into supporting this ends.

An economic crisis was used to justify the US social/nationalizing private banks and manufacturing. This is a political move, everyone knows it, everyone sees it, and Obama et al are using the economy to scare the citizens into supporting their ends.

Both Bush and O used the same tactic: fear and exaggeration.

Different ends, perhaps, but the same means, and the media served up a good Bush baste-n-roast for four years running.

This article I posted was ~not~ Obama-friendly. It got me to wondering if the stim packages and O's exaggeration of the economy to justify a socialist run on industry and banking, is going to come back and bite him, same as Bush's run on Iraqi oil bit him.

- Saul
The stimulus package isn't taking lives unnecessarily. And if you're posting anything about Obama, it's not likely to be Obama-friendly anyway. In a recession, it makes sense to advance programs that will use money to make money. Arguably the plan may have been a little ambitious, but I think the O Administration is on the right track. It may "bite him," but if that's what happens when trying to implement a plan that proposes to benefit as many deserving Americans as possible, I'm sure that's something he can live with.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #6  June 9,2009, 8:52am
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tbesq wrote :
The stimulus package isn't taking lives unnecessarily. And if you're posting anything about Obama, it's not likely to be Obama-friendly anyway.

In a recession, it makes sense to advance programs that will use money to make money. Arguably the plan may have been a little ambitious, but I think the O Administration is on the right track. It may "bite him," but if that's what happens when trying to implement a plan that proposes to benefit as many deserving Americans as possible, I'm sure that's something he can live with.
Agree on the first part.

In a recession it makes sense to let it run it's course and get it over with. Not re inflate the same bubble. We need production and savings not more borrowing and spending. What happens once the make work jobs are finished and the economy is still bad?
 
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saulgoode is offline saulgoode Post #7  June 9,2009, 11:58am
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tbesq wrote :
The stimulus package isn't taking lives unnecessarily. And if you're posting anything about Obama, it's not likely to be Obama-friendly anyway. In a recession, it makes sense to advance programs that will use money to make money. Arguably the plan may have been a little ambitious, but I think the O Administration is on the right track. It may "bite him," but if that's what happens when trying to implement a plan that proposes to benefit as many deserving Americans as possible, I'm sure that's something he can live with.
So you agree that O/W both mislead -- intentionally, to achieve political gains -- but because O is misleading us to out of fiscal aggression (as opposed to W misleading us for physical aggression), it's okay.

Iraq worked, btw. It's a raging success. The US has a secure foothold in the ME oil fields. I can only hope that we'll look back and think the same thing about O's run on the US markets.

Maybe we'll see the same tag-team between the parties.

Bush P/O's the Arabs, so cue Barack Hussein Obama II, who spends his tenure reeling in the Arab support, all the while making a run on the US banks and mfg'g.

Now we have oil AND a ton of control over US industry. It's win-win, but now everyone's ticked because taxes are up near 50%.

Cue in a conservative in 2016, who'll reap the benefits of Arabs who are now our friends (no need to worry about that irritating I-country in now-West Palestine), while reeling in the public's support of our latest tax hikes, fledgling public healthcare, and the US-owned and operated battery-powered USGM Git-er-Done Hybrid SUV, boasting a whopping fifty-eight mpg, thirty-eight percent less pollution, half-ton towing capacity, and a battery that can last almost two hundred miles! Use this year's gov't stimulus vouchers toward one today!

Anyway. As usual, I'm rambling.

- Saul
 
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tbesq is offline tbesq Post #8  June 9,2009, 12:20pm
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saulgoode wrote :
So you agree that O/W both mislead -- intentionally, to achieve political gains -- but because O is misleading us to out of fiscal aggression (as opposed to W misleading us for physical aggression), it's okay.

Iraq worked, btw. It's a raging success. The US has a secure foothold in the ME oil fields. I can only hope that we'll look back and think the same thing about O's run on the US markets.

Maybe we'll see the same tag-team between the parties.

Bush P/O's the Arabs, so cue Barack Hussein Obama II, who spends his tenure reeling in the Arab support, all the while making a run on the US banks and mfg'g.

Now we have oil AND a ton of control over US industry. It's win-win, but now everyone's ticked because taxes are up near 50%.

Cue in a conservative in 2016, who'll reap the benefits of Arabs who are now our friends (no need to worry about that irritating I-country in now-West Palestine), while reeling in the public's support of our latest tax hikes, fledgling public healthcare, and the US-owned and operated battery-powered USGM Git-er-Done Hybrid SUV, boasting a whopping fifty-eight mpg, thirty-eight percent less pollution, half-ton towing capacity, and a battery that can last almost two hundred miles! Use this year's gov't stimulus vouchers toward one today!

Anyway. As usual, I'm rambling.

- Saul
I think the stimulus package is money that needs to be spent, so I don't think Obama is trying to mislead anyone. Nor has he stated that the stimulus alone is going to solve all the problems. The reason the stimulus seems like a preposterous idea is because we sank too much money into Iraq (much of that money that didn't need to be spent). We may have still had a recession even without that debacle, and in that case I don't think there would be as many naysayers. What O is essentially doing right now is trying to clean up Bush's mess, while at the same time putting this country on a more ideal economic path that, like the Iraq campaign, will take some time to realize. Even if he doesn't succeed, I'm not going to fault him for trying. You want us to have patience with the Iraq campaign...then you should, in return, have some patience with Obama.

I had no problems with us initially going into Iraq, but I do have issues with us staying there to liberate and rebuild it. Even if it were to be considered a "success," it was a largely unnecessary campaign to begin with.

We have enough issues to deal with now, I'm not thinking about 2016 yet.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #9  June 9,2009, 2:58pm
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I absolutely do not think that Obama's plan was ever designed to have instant gratification. That is why he had staggered the plan.

I think that the only way to see REAL improvement is to take a much deeper & more long term approach.

President Obama has never waivered from his plan.

Today, the large, idiotic, egomaniac that likes to disrespect all that disagree with him tries to claim that Obama is panicking in his comments. I think that it is quite clear that he does not understand a thing that the President says. It is like another language that he just does not know the meaning of. Obama has said from the start that this plan was all about investing & he will take the dividends & in turn reinvest those.

I LOVE to see him cry like this. I listen to WELI while on the road often & it is amusing to see the hosts so disgruntled. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I know that some don't like Obama's plan or just don't have the patience for it but he has never waivered once & his timeline has not waivered either.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #10  June 9,2009, 3:21pm
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Gonna have to rate this thread 4 stars for lulz!
 
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