Double-tapped on health insurance


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saulgoode is offline saulgoode Post #1  June 8,2009, 8:17am
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Democrats stoke grassroots healthcare campaign - Yahoo! News

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Though he is leaving the details to Congress, Obama has said reform must ensure a public health insurance option operating alongside private plans, a reduction in basic costs, and assurance that no one is denied insurance.
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So... if you have private insurance, you'll be paying TWICE the cost, right?

And if you don't have insurance, you'll be MANDATED to carry it (like car insurance).

So my plan will include:
1) Mandated Health Tax to a plan I do not use
2) Private Health Insurance for the coverage that's lacking in the public health plan, and so I don't have to wait three years to get that gall stone removed

Wow. What a cost-reduction! Sign me up!

(BTW: Please don't say employers will pay for the private insurance, please. Please don't. You'll only make my point for me that this whole sham is a bad idea.)

I'd almost feel better if they just out-right did away with private healthcare and nationalized the entire system, instead of just going halfsies with the private sector.

By the time O's done, I'll be making 50% what I'm earning today.

- Saul
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #2  June 8,2009, 8:47am
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I don't understand. Why do you think that if you're paying for private insurance you're paying twice the cost? The people choosing the public health insurance option will be paying the premiums for their policy; you'll be paying the premiums for the policy that you choose... If you want the coverage of the public option, you'll purchase that. If you prefer a different plan, you'll purchase that instead. You won't be paying for both. It's simply a matter of having another choice.

From Obama's letter to Sen. Kennedy:

"The plans you are discussing embody my core belief that Americans should have better choices for health insurance, building on the principle that if they like the coverage they have now, they can keep it, while seeing their costs lowered as our reforms take hold. But for those who don't have such options, I agree that we should create a health insurance exchange -- a market where Americans can one-stop shop for a health care plan, compare benefits and prices, and choose the plan that's best for them, in the same way that Members of Congress and their families can. None of these plans should deny coverage on the basis of a preexisting condition, and all of these plans should include an affordable basic benefit package that includes prevention, and protection against catastrophic costs. I strongly believe that Americans should have the choice of a public health insurance option operating alongside private plans. This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest."

You know, even the health insurance companies are supporting reform this time around...
 
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Cyclist_Steve is offline Cyclist_Steve Post #3  June 8,2009, 9:38am
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considered it - and decided not to

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neardc wrote :


You know, even the health insurance companies are supporting reform this time around...
reform, yes. not government controlled.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #4  June 8,2009, 10:50am
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Let's see ... Currently insurance companies aim to operate at a profit ... Thus they design their plans and underwriting guidelines with that in mind ...

Now, let's say Obama comes in and offers a plan through the government ... I am assuming his plan will have good/rich benefits otherwise there will be an outcry that Obama is treating the middle/lower class unfairly ... Further, I am assuming the public plan will be priced inexpensively ... If the plan comes in at $500/month for a 20 year old, Obama and company will get a ton of bad publicity ...

So we have the public plan that has rich benefits and low cost that will operate at a loss (but that is ok, the government rarely has ever operated in the green) ... Shortly thereafter, those that are sick, will jump on the Obama plan, thereby skyrocketing the usage ... Likely leading to a tax on employers (why not, no one likes employers anyway) ...

Soon, private healthcare will be a thing of the past ... We will all be waiting 3 years to get the life saving surgery done ...

Shortly thereafter ... The same route will likely follow with car insurance ... Then with apartment and affordable housing ...

Just a quick word of note ... Looking at the history of public run healthcare programs ... We have MediCare (of which 15 million of the touted 46 million are elligible for, they just don't bother) which confuses seniors to no end ... Then we have Part D, which makes no sense to anyone ...

I tremble at the thought of the national healthcare prgram being run by the same folks (read as politicans in power) that have had their hand in the various medicare programs.
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #5  June 8,2009, 10:53am
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On a side note ... The last bit in his quote ... 'keeping the insurance companies' makes me chuckle ... He means to say that the government will keep insurance companies honest?

If we assume insurance companies are crooks ... Then why are we to believe that the biggest crook of them all would keep another crook honest??
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #6  June 8,2009, 11:14am
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There sure are an awwwwwwwful lot of assumptions being made here (based on what? fear?) before there is even a working plan on the table for discussion...lol.

Like it or not, there is going to be healthcare reform.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #7  June 8,2009, 11:27am
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If the government is going to subsidize health care or take it over. How are they going to pay for it?
 
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saulgoode is offline saulgoode Post #8  June 8,2009, 11:33am
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I don't mind reform. I just recall one of our Canadian friends mentioning that they had ~both~ health plans.

Then I see this quote from O saying he wants public/private operating ~beside~ each other.

And I think, "Doesn't public mean tax-funded, i.e. subsidized by the tax-payers, like welfare and social security and medicaid and all?"

And I think, "Wait a second. I'll still want private insurance! No way the gov't will have a better plan, no way. Which means I'll still pay on my current plan, as well as the public plan via taxes, which I won't even use, or use sparingly. So, for me, my medical coverage goes UP!"

And I think, "Wait a second... Public healthcare won't be operating ~beside~ private health care, like O's pitching it -- it'll operate ~on top~ of private health care. It will be ~in addition~ to private healthcare, same as welfare and medicade and social security."

See the difference? See the wordplay on critical modifiers?

Remember the Peter/Paul quote, robbing from Peter to pay Paul and all. He's saying healthcare costs will go down, but the tween-liner is he's really saying, "Healthcare will only go down for the Pauls who voted for me, for that 51% of the population. It'll double for those mean-ol 49% of America's stingy Peters! BWAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA." (That's O's evil laugh)

Remember that we are moving full-steam toward Socialism. That's fine, I guess, whatever. I have no control over that train. I'll just have to make sure I earn less money in the future.

See, Socialism, by definition, punishes success, and rewards failure. Only the failures will benefit from the health tax, since they don't earn enough to be required to pay it.

If you don't believe me, compare Social Security and your private 401k or 529 or IRA accounts. SS is ~in addition~ to your private investments. You have no choice. SS is not in competition with your 401k any more than this healthcare plan will be in competition with Blue Cross Blue Shield.

- Saul
 
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Rand_011 is offline Rand_011 Post #9  June 8,2009, 12:18pm
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neardc wrote :
There sure are an awwwwwwwful lot of assumptions being made here (based on what? fear?) before there is even a working plan on the table for discussion...lol.

Like it or not, there is going to be healthcare reform.
And the flip side is ... There are an awwwwwwwwwful lot of assumptions being made that the grass will be greener on the other side (based on what? misguided hope?) ... Under the Canadian system (that Obama seems to be proposing, or variation there of) major operations take a lot longer to be done than under our current system.

Of course there will be changes to the system ... Democrats control everything but the Supreme court at this point ... Thus, they will have no real troubles taxing the 'R' base to provide benefits for the 'D' base.
 
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Faira is offline Faira Post #10  June 8,2009, 12:26pm
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How about you guys actually do some research into universal health care is run in the countries that have it, instead of engaging in all this conjecture? You might find that the prospect is a lot less scary than you're making it out to be.
 
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