Why issues cause Libs and Cons to react so strongly against each other?


View Poll Results: What issues do you strongly care about? (your profile will be kept secret)
Women's rights per their bodies 4 25.00%
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Women around the world & protecting them 2 12.50%
hunger and/or peace 4 25.00%
freedom of lifestyle including everything (religion, type of family, lifestyle, etc) 10 62.50%
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Freedom from Big Govt. intruding into your life 9 56.25%
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Protecting the Constitution (also preserving middle class, family, etc) 12 75.00%
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roguewolf1 is offline roguewolf1 Post #31  October 13,2009, 5:17am

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graceventually wrote :
Totally agree with that, nightling.

There's a very telling piece on politico. com today, called "The Lost Senate". It's about the changes in and the decline in civility in the US Senate, and it touches on some of the issues in this thread as far as people getting so polarized that they start to forget how much they actually have in common. The basic premise of the article is that, as Senators have spent more time with special interest groups and at home with constituents, they have spent far less time with one another. They have abandoned the old rules about not campaigning against one another, and they rarely see each other outside of a few highly partisan events. As a result, they don't know one another as real people, and the Senate has become polarized to the point of dysfunction. It's a long article, but interesting.


They have mostly become corrupted by the system and bought out. America was bought out. It happened before in history.
 
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jtkdp is offline jtkdp Post #32  December 20,2009, 6:54pm
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gets right on to the friction of the day...

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First, let me start by saying I vote, and I am registered as an independent. I consider myself a moderate, meaning I take the political path that a good idea is a good idea, regardless of who thought it up. I'm not into extremism, at least I don't think so.

I think the definition of "liberal" and "conservative" dosen't mean what it used to. When I had my first civics class, in the 70s, "conservative" meant to stay the course, and not try new ideas, and "liberal" meant to try something new. As a side note, "liberal" ideas were new back then, now they're old, but the liberals are still hanging on to them.

Now, it seems a conservative is just an anti-liberal, and vice-versa. Nothing new, just a hatred of the other side, and anything they come up with, even if it is a good idea. They can't even say the name of the other without disgust in their voice, like they're cursing, or saying the the "N" word. It seems that if a president, or congress of a particular party did come up with an idea to solve America's, or the worlds problems, the other side would attack, immediately, even if the ideas were sound, and even if it helped the opposition, just because of their extreme hatred of the other side.

I also don't understand the breakdown of the issues. Conservatives claim to be "pro-life". But, that only applies to whatever is growing inside a woman's womb. They're not above executing criminals, starting wars, or allowing people to own death dealing devices (guns). The liberals claim to be "pro-choice" but that only applies to abortion, not to whether you choose to own a gun , whether you choose to drive an SUV that gets 10 mpg, or whether you choose to throw your paper, glass, and aluminum in the garbage, rather than recycle.

I think most people are middle of the road, and the extremists have hijacked both parties. Instead of voting for the best candidate, we end up voting for the lesser of two evils.
 
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buffaloacademy is offline buffaloacademy Post #33  December 21,2009, 8:17pm
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Why the emotion? Why the confusion?

We are educated by Hollywood movies. We live soap opera lives. Our morals are set by these standards, our expectations of life seen in brilliant color on the screne. We know nothing but emotional reaction.

Church is ridiculed, history rewritten. I see politicians.. even judges... making laws and decisions based on bribes. And we as a nation tell our daughters to kill our grandchildren .

Emotion? What else is there? Reason has disappeared.

But this, too shall pass. Times are changin'.
Interesting times are up ahead. We may find a new unity in the days before us.
 
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rswgoforit is offline rswgoforit Post #34  December 21,2009, 9:42pm
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I would prefer to look at many of the issues we face from a Biblical worldview vs what is contrary to that. It's easy to go knee-jerk on being pro-life vs pro-choice which gives the unborn child no choice. I'm passionate to the views I hold but I hope that my views are in conformity with what God says.
 
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ming_on_mongo is offline ming_on_mongo Post #35  January 14,2010, 11:47am
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outlaw1 wrote :
What issues cause us to react so strongly? Have we gone so far that we can no longer agree? Or is this rift too deep, too long and too painful?
rswgoforit wrote :
I would prefer to look at many of the issues we face from a Biblical worldview vs what is contrary to that. It's easy to go knee-jerk on being pro-life vs pro-choice which gives the unborn child no choice. I'm passionate to the views I hold but I hope that my views are in conformity with what God says.

Well, no offense intended, but there you have the answer to the OP right there. Whenever anybody starts invoking religion in politics (aka "God is on our side!"), you can pretty much kiss any sort of further rational discussion goodbye!

And yet social conservatives have become so vocal and activist in recent years, that now we've come take it for granted hearing religion mixed with politics. But as anyone who remembers all the controversy surrounding JFK's Catholicism when he ran for the Presidency, we forget there was once a time when the very idea of religion intruding into politics was very rare.

As many scholars have noted, it's also what prompted the Founders, many of them religious men themselves, to include the 1st Amendment Establishment Clause, specifically in order to avoid the horrors of religious infighting that had so famously (and often) torn Europe.
 
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Nanette is offline Nanette Post #36  January 15,2010, 9:43am
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D_Lion wrote :
bigfincat,

I don't know where you live, but traffic tolls are one tax that is much-collected from out-of-state residents. In NJ, more than half of tolls are paid by non-residents. Therefore your state budget and services are funded by people from outside your state. That is a big reason why politicians love them.

I agree that on a supra-state level, they are economically dumb (taxing the gasoline is better.)
yeah on that frlakcking new jersey turnpike! lets stop and pay a toll every couple of miles!!
 
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Nanette is offline Nanette Post #37  January 15,2010, 9:50am
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I'm a Republican because I refuse to waste my time affiliating with any fringe political party. I have some views that would be characteristically considered *liberal* (not many) and mostly my ideas align best with Republicans.

When I was younger and had less money, I voted Democrat.

I think there is a saying that most young people are Dems and when you grow up you become a Republican. Look who voted for O. People under 30 and the poor.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #38  January 15,2010, 1:46pm
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Nanette wrote :
I'm a Republican because I refuse to waste my time affiliating with any fringe political party. I have some views that would be characteristically considered *liberal* (not many) and mostly my ideas align best with Republicans.

When I was younger and had less money, I voted Democrat.

I think there is a saying that most young people are Dems and when you grow up you become a Republican. Look who voted for O. People under 30 and the poor.
And a whole lot of people that live in or near cities.
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #39  February 15,2010, 12:17am
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That reminds me of a quote..."If you're under 30 and are not a Democrat you have no heart, if you're over 30 and not a Republican you have no brain."

Ming, while I agree that a blind "God says I'm right!" argument is intellectually bankrupt to the extreme I disagree that there is no place for religion in politics. The "Founders" were pretty much universally religious men (Jefferson was probably one of the closest to agnostic, none were atheist).

The "Establishment clause" as you put it was never intended as being "separation of church and state" as it's interpreted now. The idea of God being removed from politics was so foreign to the founders it approached the absurd. This was implemented so a specific religion would not be supported by the state.

If you think about their history putting this in there makes perfect sense...the pilgrims didn't flee England because they were atheists who were being forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school. The pilgrims were extremely religious...they just wanted to be allowed to practice their religion. In other words, freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

Granted our thought process has changed in modern times as the atheist religion has increased in popularity. The whole point was to make it so the state would never support a single church through money, policy, or dictate. For example let's say that Congress was primarily Quakers...they couldn't pass a law saying that all Quaker churches get public funding and all the other churches are only allowed to be built at least 5 miles from the town. This is contrary to freedom of religion and contrary to the basic freedoms the founders were trying to implement.

So no, the first amendment was not designed to avoid religious infighting but to avoid state-sponsored religions.

Jacquesne

P.S. I know someone is going to object to my use of "atheist religion" so let me explain my understanding of religion. Religion is, at its most basic level, a viewpoint about the nature of reality based on faith. Atheism, the belief that there is no "creator" or supernatural force behind reality, is still a viewpoint based on faith, in this case faith that a "god" does not exist. Since this is not a fact as it not provable it is by definition an opinion and a value. The only belief that arguably does not constitute a religion is agnosticism as agnostics admit they don't know the true nature of the universe .
 
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tweet37 is offline tweet37 Post #40  February 15,2010, 2:57am
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Nanette wrote :
I think there is a saying that most young people are Dems and when you grow up you become a Republican. Look who voted for O. People under 30 and the poor.
If you are young and aren't liberal, you have no heart.
If you are older and aren't conservative, you have no brain.

Winston Churchill
 
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