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dwreese182 wrote :
You can't cry emotionalism and at the same time use the phrase "the greenies" as if it were a derogatory phrase.
You are just as guilty as them. Do you honestly think that won't invoke an emotional response? Provide evidence to support your thoughts and leave the name calling to your inner voice. No one wants to hear it.
Wrong. I want to hear it. Goo Meri!!

And I will call anyone a greenie that drives their Hummer and personal jet and is a staunch advocate of protecting the enviornment.
- July 21st, 2009, 09:56 am
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First off the evidence of the global warming/cooling cycles has been linked to varitations in the Earths orbit (eccentricity, axial tilt, and precession). These variations affect the Earths climate they're called Milankovitch cycles. So there are perdictable climate changes. We are in a warming phase; however, increased pollution will most likely exagerate the this phase and lead to a spike in global temperatures. This is not law, but theory.

But just becasue somethimg is a theory does not mean it lacks weight or truth. In every day language a theory is thought to be the equivalent of a guess, but that just isn't so. A theory is based on evidence, and as time goes on evidence either supports the theory or does not. If it does not the theory could be thrown away or it could be modified to account for this new information. So in science when someone uses the word theory don't think it's them just throwing out an idea; it is the result of research and possibly years of evidence. Science is wonderfully dynamic, it's always shifting to accomodate new ideas and evidence. But this aspect of sciene doesn't gel well with humanity. Our whole existence is driven to maintaining a homeostasis not only internally but externally as well. That's natural, it's instinctual but the fact is that the physical world is constantly changeing in almost imeasurable ways when we examine it within the span of a life.

I think that's one of the reasons people struggle with evolution (religion aside) because evolution occured on a HUGE time scale, a scale that is almost unfathomable, a scale that's only had us existing for a few minutes! I think evolution is beautiful and marvolous to look at.

But I digress; people like all animals modify their environments but we've been doing it on a scale that is greater than animals. As far as volcanoes go, they do emit a lot of gases and affect global climate but those sorts of eruptions are not common, the Earth eventually rebalances but we are always adding we never give the physical world time to readjust.

What the goal should be is sustainability, a balance that sustains both the "human" and the "natural" world. But that means changes which people will naturally resist, ie a carbon tax on industry is a very effecient way to affect policy but extremely unpoular.
- July 21st, 2009, 11:21 am
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As a general rule of thumb the carrot approach will yield better results than the stick approach ...

If one were to reward companies for taking certain paths there would be an incentive ... A sense of accomplishment ... A goal achieved.

If one were to punish companies (that is what a tax is) ... The incentive is to try and dodge the stick ... Builds resentment to the enforcer ... Leads to distrust and dislike of the enforcing entity.

Rarely does one go above and beyond the 'call of duty', so to speak, with the stick approach ...
- July 21st, 2009, 04:10 pm
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For once Rand and I agree on something!

If you want to see a behaviour, reward it when you see it...much more effective than focussing on punishment for the actions that you *don't* want to see.

Basic theory behind the "positive behaviour supports" school of thought, which is used a lot in schools and by social services agencies.
- July 21st, 2009, 04:24 pm
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Hmm ... Well, Faira, now I have to change my stance on the subject, heh.
- July 21st, 2009, 04:43 pm
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dwreese182 wrote :
You can't cry emotionalism and at the same time use the phrase "the greenies" as if it were a derogatory phrase.
You are just as guilty as them. Do you honestly think that won't invoke an emotional response? Provide evidence to support your thoughts and leave the name calling to your inner voice. No one wants to hear it.
What are you talking about? 'The Greenies' is the term popularly used to refer to The Greens (www.greens.org.au) - which is the name of one of our environmentally focused political parties. Considering they refer to themselves as 'greenies' in their campaigns, I'm at a complete loss as to how you find this derogatory?
- July 21st, 2009, 05:38 pm
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Rand_011 wrote :
Hmm ... Well, Faira, now I have to change my stance on the subject, heh.
Classy.
- July 21st, 2009, 10:10 pm
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Rand_011 wrote :
Wrong. I want to hear it. Goo Meri!!

And I will call anyone a greenie that drives their Hummer and personal jet and is a staunch advocate of protecting the enviornment.
I have a word for those people myself and it's not "greenies".
I personally don't like "special interest" groups. They, for the most part, have a very biased stance and get in the way of progress.
- July 22nd, 2009, 01:39 am
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meri75 wrote :
What are you talking about? 'The Greenies' is the term popularly used to refer to The Greens (www.greens.org.au) - which is the name of one of our environmentally focused political parties. Considering they refer to themselves as 'greenies' in their campaigns, I'm at a complete loss as to how you find this derogatory?
It wasn't what you said but how you said it. Perception is 99 percent of the game in political debates, and most everything else in life. Perhaps I perceived your comments the wrong way.
Either way, it seems like most everyone I talk to seems to believe we have some impact on global warming. It only seems to be the special interest groups that are pushing the self destruction thing.
- July 22nd, 2009, 01:52 am
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I assume by carrot you mean subsidies? But where will you get the funding for the subsidies? Or for the regulation measures? The other issue is that subsidies are often for using the "best technology available" and don't encourage research and development. A tax isn't a punishment it's an incentive, if the business lowers it's carbon output it recieves a smaller or no tax. This increases the demand for more effieicent/cleaner/cheaper technology which leads to better tecnology being available. Subsidizing puts the cost on the victims (public) of the externalities (pollution) of industry. Taxes place the burden on those who are causing the problem, you internalize the costs of pollution. Furthermore, a tax creates revenue that can be put towards regulating the tax.
- July 22nd, 2009, 10:38 am
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