notyet is offline notyet Post #61  January 27,2009, 4:00pm
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Bandmate,456405 wrote :


America will never mind it's own business...


and that is the problem. or rather, we think that EVERYTHING is our business and THAT is the problem.
 
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shulamit is offline shulamit Post #62  January 27,2009, 4:13pm
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graceventually,456476 wrote :

Bandmate,456400 wrote :


shulamit,455528 wrote :


Bandmate,454534 wrote :


shulamit, wrote :


I sincerely hope that my EHA colleagues will join me in thanking our new President for his executive order to close Guantanamo, abolish the secret prisons, and to outlaw torture. I am so proud as an American to affirm American values, and so proud that he had my vote.


I say this with all sincerity,i hope that if those released lauch another attack on this country that they come to your home town and not mine,it will simply be a matter of you and not me paying the price for your stupidity....loosing one family member to the filth is enough for me...your turn.


Why would you wish or hope harm on any else and a fellow American no less? You scare me more than the prospect of "they" coming to my home town. Your values seem to need an adjustment or you need an anger management class.


You are a typical condescending and arrogant liberal,not to mention slightly illiterate.when your beleifs allow for the possibility of danger to others then it's only fair that you be the first to face that danger,one of those released for Gitmo has already rejoined the Jihad and is ready to strike again..my values are fine,they say that the enemies of this country be destroyed without hesitation,the consequences being that people like you have the place and opportunity to voice your convictions of conveinence in safety.I fear you,your ignorance is all that is needed for 911 to happen all over again.


Just a hint, bandmate; before you go calling other posters "illiterate", you might want to edit your own posts for spelling and punctuation errors.


shulamit is an eloquent and interesting voice on these boards, and I always enjoy her posts.
Ah, thank you for your kindness and your kind words, graceeventually. You are a premier voice for intellect, sanity. moderation, and reason on these boards. As a "very liberal" and self-identified Jew, I have dealt with his type before, as have my mothers and fathers before me.
 
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Jato87 is offline Jato87 Post #63  January 27,2009, 5:05pm
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mkeys81,452820 wrote :

you think these secret prisons are going anywhere? they arent. there are steps being made right nowthat will bring this out of the hands of the governement and into the hand of the private sector. do a bit of reading on Eric Prince and Blackwater, security isnt the only thing they have their hands in.


a bomb is about to go off in the school where your children are attending and the only person who knows how to disarm it isnt speaking... do you try and talk to this person rationally or do you take whatever means required to get the information? this isnt some episode of 24, this is real life and it happens everyday whether you want to see it or not.

This is the kind of nonsense that movies and TV useto justify torture, but it it's mostlyHollywood's and TV's romantic version, where the tortured are neatly identified and can be forced toreveal info that saves the school kids.Hooray!!! This is not real world stuff that's a lot more uncertain.


Most tortureis merely fishing expeditions to see what the captured person might know. If you condone this, you also give all those raghead warlords permission/justification to do the same to your ownsons and daughters at their whim. This is the very reason that the Geneva Convention outlaws torture.A fact so often overlooked, but one recognized by our military leaders.


You have to think above the TV version of how much fun war can be.


What to do with the Guantanamo detainees is indeed a difficult issue. But I have confidencethat Obama, as opposed to his predecessor,has the common sense to call on all the very best legal minds in this country and also the rest of the world to come up with a solution.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #64  January 27,2009, 5:34pm
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neardc,456502 wrote :

dito,456482 wrote :


Wasn't Obama the anti war/ change candidate? Just curious.


That seems to be a rather disingenuous comment. I'm certain that you understand both that there are Bush policiesthat Obama agrees with as well as those he is determined to change. He is in favor of stepping up efforts in Afghanistan as he also moves toward withdrawing our troops from Iraq (it gets confusing, but those are actually two different wars, and they each require different strategies).
And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?
 
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augustpisces is offline augustpisces Post #65  January 27,2009, 5:48pm
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shulamit, wrote :

I sincerely hope that my EHA colleagues will join me in thanking our new President for his* executive order to close Guantanamo, abolish the secret prisons, and to outlaw torture. I am so proud as an American to affirm American values, and so proud that he had my vote.
Me too.
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #66  January 27,2009, 6:04pm
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dito,456512 wrote :


Can you tell me anyone who has ever tamed/defeated Afghanistan? Killing innocent civilians is not going to win that war.


That's a statement with which I can wholeheartedly agree.


Defeating/taming Afghanistan is not in fact the goal, though. I do think that the original decision to attack was at least an understandable one, given that this is where those who organized the attack againstus actually were. However, we did not follow through and directed nearly all of our resources toward Iraq instead. Whether a better Afghanistan strategy 5 years ago would have produced a better outcome, I do not know...
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #67  January 27,2009, 6:04pm
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shulamit, wrote :

I sincerely hope that my EHA colleagues will join me...
sorry! i guess that did not happen...
 
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dito is offline dito Post #68  January 27,2009, 6:11pm
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neardc,456945 wrote :

dito,456512 wrote :


Can you tell me anyone who has ever tamed/defeated Afghanistan? Killing innocent civilians is not going to win that war.


That's a statement with which I can wholeheartedly agree.


Defeating/taming Afghanistan is not in fact the goal, though. I do think that the original decision to attack was at least an understandable one, given that this is where those who organized the attack againstus actually were. However, we did not follow through and directed nearly all of our resources toward Iraq instead. Whether a better Afghanistan strategy 5 years ago would have produced a better outcome, I do not know...
Then what is the goal? Killing civilians and children only spawns more radicals. Remember, we created the Taliban and bin laden. Bin laden if he is still alive is winning. Our country is going down the tubes and fast. Bin Laden hasn't even been charged. We did not declare war on Afgahnistan or Iraq. We need to get out of there.





Not only out of there but we need to bring our troops home from all over the world and mind our own business. No more wars and killing. It's time for peace.
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #69  January 27,2009, 8:07pm
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dito,456967 wrote :

neardc,456945 wrote :


dito,456512 wrote :


Can you tell me anyone who has ever tamed/defeated Afghanistan? Killing innocent civilians is not going to win that war.


That's a statement with which I can wholeheartedly agree.


Defeating/taming Afghanistan is not in fact the goal, though. I do think that the original decision to attack was at least an understandable one, given that this is where those who organized the attack againstus actually were. However, we did not follow through and directed nearly all of our resources toward Iraq instead. Whether a better Afghanistan strategy 5 years ago would have produced a better outcome, I do not know...


Then what is the goal? Killing civilians and children only spawns more radicals. Remember, we created the Taliban and bin laden. Bin laden if he is still alive is winning. Our country is going down the tubes and fast. Bin Laden hasn't even been charged. We did not declare war on Afgahnistan or Iraq. We need to get out of there.


Not only out of there but we need to bring our troops home from all over the world and mind our own business. No more wars and killing. It's time for peace.
Hey; I would like nothing more than to bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. I've got friends over in both countries right now who have now served multiple deployments and I want them to get out of there ASAP (other friends are home for the time being, but have also served multiple deployments...). I am sick to death of these wars and have shed more tears than I would like to remember because of them.


You are absolutely right that killing civilians spawns more radicals (as have scandals like Abu Ghraib in Iraq).


You won't see us close down all of our military installations around the world, though (although a number have been or will be closed as recommended by the BRAC report). We are still in Japan and Germany more than half a century after WWII, for goodness sake, so I don't see any end to that any time soon.


That being said, I am hopeful that there will now be changes in policy that move things in the right direction. Not overly hopeful, just.... hopeful.
 
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dito is offline dito Post #70  January 27,2009, 8:32pm
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Well, I hope so as well. But the way things are looking right now. Well..
 
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