Barack Obama's campaign promise not to take away our guns is a lie.


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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #1  December 8,2008, 9:27am
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This was an email sent out from the NRA to it's members.





Obama's FIRST attack on YOU : Appointing Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel to be White House Chief of Staff. In Congress, Emanuel earned an "F" rating from NRA, and while working in the Clinton Administration, he was known as the "point man on gun control." He is an avowed enemy of the Second Amendment and will wield enormous power in the battle for the future of our firearm freedoms.


Obama's SECOND attack on YOU : If Hillary Clinton is confirmed as Secretary of State, she'll rip the Second Amendment right out of the Bill of Rights. She'll be our nation's top diplomat with the power to determine whether the United Nations will pass, and Obama will sign, a global gun ban treaty that will surrender our Second Amendment rights and our national sovereignty.


Obama's THIRD attack on YOU : Nominating ex-Senator and former Majority Leader Tom Daschle-an avowed enemy of NRA-to be Secretary of Health and Human Services. NRA was responsible for defeating Daschle when he ran in South Dakota for re-election to the Senate. If Daschle is confirmed, he could hold the ultimate power to declare guns a "public health menace" and regulate away our essential liberties.


Obama's FOURTH attack on YOU : Nominating Eric Holder to be Attorney General. As former Assistant Attorney General, Holder was a key architect and vocal advocate for the Clinton era's sweeping gun ban agenda. He supported national handgun licensing, mandatory trigger locks, and ending gun shows as we know them.


Just recently, Holder opposed the District of Columbia's Heller decision that declared the Second Amendment an individual right. Holder also called for reviving the Clinton gun bans and, as Attorney General, would fight in court to prevent the landmark Heller decision from being made applicable to state and local governments.


Worst of all, if Holder is confirmed as the nation's top law-enforcement officer, he would control BATFE and wield enormous power to harass gun owners and sue America's arms makers out of existence.


Obama's FIFTH attack on YOU : In the job application for the Obama Administration, he made it clear that gun owners are second-class citizens and told 80 million gun owners not to even bother applying for a job. In the "White House Personnel Data Questionnaire" he asked:


"Do you or any members of your immediate family own a gun? If so, provide
complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever
lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has
been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage."



This chilling notice to gun owners-that they are not welcome to serve in his Administration-shows the deep hostility for Americans' Second Amendment Freedoms that Obama and his Administration have in their hearts.


On its face, that question endorses gun registration-a mandate in only five states in our nation-and buys into the anti-gun premise that firearms are inherently dangerous and gun owners are prone to misusing them.


That's an outrageous mindset, especially for the President-elect whose sworn duty will be to uphold the U.S. Constitution, including our right to keep and bear arms.


Obama CLEARLY wants to make gun registration the law of the land.


First for employees under his control...AND THEN FOR YOU.


Rubbing salt in gun owner wounds is the Brady Campaign, which just issued a completely bogus poll claiming that two-thirds of the Americans-including 60% of all gun owners-favor gun registration, licensing of firearm owners, and other sweeping restrictions on our firearm freedoms!





Again, this was an email sent out from the NRA to it's members. I have always been pro-gun and anti-gun restrictions. Mostly because the large majority of guns used in crimes are not legally obtained or registered and if they were they were stolen. Criminals simply do NOT care about gun laws. More laws controlling guns only hurts the law abiding citizens that use theirs safely, for personal protection and for hunting. I support Obama on most of his issues but I would be up in arms, literally, if they tried to take my second amendment right away.


I understand that the NRA has to keep the money flow going and this email has multiple hyperlinks to "renew your membership" embeded in it. So this information needs to be taken with a grain of salt. But the possibility is there. Obama's home state of Illinois is not a gun friendly state at all. There is NO right to carry a hand gun although you can own one in your home and Chicago requires ALL guns to be registered. To purchase a firearm or AMMUNITION you must hold a FOID (firearm owner ID) card. Again, these types of laws only put more restrictions on law obiding citizens and does not affect the criminals ability to purchase firearms or ammunition. These are not the type of laws that need to be standardized nationwide.
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #2  December 8,2008, 4:16pm
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Seriously, DW - consider the source. This is a sensationalistic appeal to their base consistingcompletely ofconjecture and fabrication. The NRA is not exactly known for thoughtful discourse on this issue; they would be happy to have everyone carrying an M-16 when they head over to Walmart.
 
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tweet37 is offline tweet37 Post #3  December 8,2008, 6:54pm
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Yeah well sometimes you need a mob equalizer at Wal-Mart. You saw what those retards did just to get a cheap DVD player.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #4  December 8,2008, 8:40pm
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Seriously, DW - consider the source. This is a sensationalistic appeal to their base consistingcompletely ofconjecture and fabrication. The NRA is not exactly known for thoughtful discourse on this issue; they would be happy to have everyone carrying an M-16 when they head over to Walmart.
As I stated twice in the post, I am aware that it came from an email sent to MEMBERS. So of course they are trying to appeal to that specific group. I left out a lot of the email, most of it from where they claim to have played roles in defeating specific candidates and asked to renew memberships. But you can pick out little slivers of truth even when coming out of the mouths of the far left and far right on issues. I would say about 95 percent of that information is pure bull-cra p. I get a lot of these emails from the NRA and laugh at most of it. But the second amendment is a pretty big issue for me. I think the NRA goes a little over the top but without them I think gun laws would be completely different today.


I don't agree that everyone should be able to carry a hand gun, and I believe there should be some restrictions (mandatory safety/state gun law classes [paid by the state of course], permits to carry and conceal, background checks and trigger lock laws for guns in houses with children under the age of 16) on firearms simply because some people are just too ignorant to just go out and buy a gun and use it responsibly and safely. LoL Could you imagine going to Wal-Mart on Black Friday if EVERYONE had an M-16 strapped to their backs? White trash all over America would be getting shot over one of them cheap DVD players. Ha. However I do feel that the government fears it's people being armed. It threatens their ability to do what they want and to stay in power. With guns abolished it would give government absolute power (which they pretty much already have). Not that it matters, American's have gotten so fat and lazy that a rebellion would just be a hassle and take time away from stuffing their fatty faces with fatty fat boy foods.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #5  December 8,2008, 9:10pm
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Here is one of the emails I laughed at when I read it. It's about Oregon and the newspapers wanting to know who has a license to carry and conceal.


OREGON: Help Protect Your Right-to-Carry Privacy Rights! : Newspapers across the state have been requesting thatlocal sheriffs release information about the identity of individuals who have been issued Concealed Handgun Licenses within their respective counties. Earlier this year, after the Jackson County Sheriff refused a request for similar information from the Medford Mail Tribune , a circuit court in Jackson County ruled that individuals who apply for or have been issued CHLs must document that the license is for personal security reasons in order to be exempt from state public records disclosure laws.The Portland Oregonian reported that in response to this ruling and subsequent requests for information, the Washington County Sheriff's Office has decided to mail letters to the tens of thousands of individuals who have been issued CHLs by the county, asking them if they obtained their license for personal security reasons and whether they want theirinformation released as part of a public records request.CHLs in Washington County also have the option of answering these questions by visitingthe sheriff's office website at *hyper link erased* . The Washington County Sheriff's Office should be commended for recognizing the importance of keeping a personal security decision to obtain a CHLprivate -- and for developing a mechanism that complies with the court's ruling, but still gives CHLs a choice in the matter.We've also received information that the Coos County Sheriff has done the same for his CHL holders, so bravo to him as well. Members are urged to contact their county sheriff and ask him or her to devise a way to accommodate CHL holdersand their privacy concerns as the Washington and Coos County Sheriffs' Offices has done. You can find contact information for your county sheriff's office by visiting *hyper link erased*


I don't agree with the NRA on this one. I would say make the CHL public record. Let it be known to all criminals who desire to rob me that I own a gun and to rob at their own risk. If I were a criminal I would get smart and look this info up on the net and then rob a non hand gun owner. Sounds pretty stup1d on them no good "gun grabbin" (NRA term) hippie's part, but whatever. Why would a newspaper care who had a CHL anyway? I don't get it.


"Members are urged to contact their county sheriff and ask him or her to devise a way to accommodate CHL holders" Haha. only evil super villians "devise".
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #6  December 8,2008, 9:37pm
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The positions that the NRA lobby forare far more extreme than what their average member actually supports (they oppose much of what you advocate). Just as an FYI, here is the stated Obama position from his website:


Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.


I haven't seen anything that suggests that he will be pushing for anything different from that other than the alarmist info from the NRA. And seriously, there are slightly more important things to deal with right now, like trying to keep the entire economy from collapsing and bringing our position in Iraq to some kind of reasonable end. I see no momentum for massive gun control legislation at this point in time. But, the NRA has to keep busy doing something...lol (and,like you noted, keep people paying those memberships!).


("fatty fat boy foods"...LMAO)
 
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Glider_Pilot is offline Glider_Pilot Post #7  December 9,2008, 12:57am
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...However I do feel that the government fears it's people being armed. It threatens their ability to do what they want and to stay in power. With guns abolished it would give government absolute power (which they pretty much already have). Not that it matters, American's have gotten so fat and lazy that a rebellion would just be a hassle and take time away from stuffing their fatty faces with fatty fat boy foods.
Well, I'll say this. I absolutely guarantee that the government isn't worried about us having guns so that they can have "absolute power." There is no weapon you or I could even conceivably own that would bother the US military in the least. Nothing. If "they" ever wanted to use armed force to "supress us", they could do it, and easily. Any thought of an armed rebellion by the citizens of this country died with the invention of the tank and the airplane. Our little pea-shooters are useless against that.


And the whole thing is pointless anyway, since any military commander is perfectly within his rights to refuse an order to use military weapons on US citizens. It's against the law. Even assuming some megalomaniac got into the White House (no Bush jokes, please, we're about done with him so let's move on) and ordered an armed supression of the citizens, he'd end up shouting impotently while the military looks at him and says, "H*ll no, sir!" Turn their guns on their own people? Won't happen. Not in this country.


Myself, I'm a gun owner, and I don't like the kind of hyperbolistic cr*p like this thatthe NRA puts out occasionally. It's absurd and it's counter-productive. Hillary is single-handedly going to take away the Second Ammendment? I do believe she'd need a two-thirds majority in both houses to make that happen. Heck, she couldn't get two-thirds of anyone to go along with her, even when she was campaigning andsaying what she thought they wanted to hear. And the UN can't make us do anything with our Constitution. Even assuming they had that authority (and they don't), they'd need a unanimous vote in Security Council - and we're one of the permanent members.


Write the NRA and tell them to stick to the real issues. If this is the sort of stuff they're advocating, I'll continue to be a non-member gun owner.
 
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dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #8  December 9,2008, 2:06am
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Write the NRA and tell them to stick to the real issues. If this is the sort of stuff they're advocating, I'll continue to be a non -member gun owner.
Touché . But I do believe that the government would prefer us to be un-armed. And FYI the Iraqi people have been doing a pretty darn good job of fighting our tanks and planes with only AK-47s, some home-made bombs and a little inventive thinking. The key to defeating our military is to NOT use traditional ways of fighting. I believe almost anyone would be crushed by us in a traditional war, minus china and russia. The key is to demoralize and pester the American soldier. Make them afraid of what's around that next turn or behind that rail on the side of the road up ahead. And don't be so sure that an American General would not go along with a presidents biding. They are men of power and power currupts, some soldiers would follow and some would not. I would expect to see a split in the military if something like that happened. Infantry Division against Infantry Division. Wouldn't be pretty. But then again the military just might fall apart if something like that were to happen. I'm sure we will never find out though.


But I'll write the NRA and see what they have to say. LoL They preach more of the "personal protection" thing than a possible attempt to take over the government. I'm sure THAT wouldn't be too good for business.
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #9  December 9,2008, 8:31am
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...However I do feel that the government fears it's people being armed. It threatens their ability to do what they want and to stay in power. With guns abolished it would give government absolute power (which they pretty much already have). Not that it matters, American's have gotten so fat and lazy that a rebellion would just be a hassle and take time away from stuffing their fatty faces with fatty fat boy foods.


Well, I'll say this. I absolutely guarantee that the government isn't worried about us having guns so that they can have "absolute power." There is no weapon you or I could even conceivably own that would bother the US military in the least. Nothing. If "they" ever wanted to use armed force to "supress us", they could do it, and easily. Any thought of an armed rebellion by the citizens of this country died with the invention of the tank and the airplane. Our little pea-shooters are useless against that.


And the whole thing is pointless anyway, since any military commander is perfectly within his rights to refuse an order to use military weapons on US citizens. It's against the law. Even assuming some megalomaniac got into the White House (no Bush jokes, please, we're about done with him so let's move on) and ordered an armed supression of the citizens, he'd end up shouting impotently while the military looks at him and says, "H*ll no, sir!" Turn their guns on their own people? Won't happen. Not in this country.


Myself, I'm a gun owner, and I don't like the kind of hyperbolistic cr*p like this thatthe NRA puts out occasionally. It's absurd and it's counter-productive. Hillary is single-handedly going to take away the Second Ammendment? I do believe she'd need a two-thirds majority in both houses to make that happen. Heck, she couldn't get two-thirds of anyone to go along with her, even when she was campaigning andsaying what she thought they wanted to hear. And the UN can't make us do anything with our Constitution. Even assuming they had that authority (and they don't), they'd need a unanimous vote in Security Council - and we're one of the permanent members.


Write the NRA and tell them to stick to the real issues. If this is the sort of stuff they're advocating, I'll continue to be a non-member gun owner.
Always enjoy your logic and common sense, GP. Thank you!
 
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Glider_Pilot is offline Glider_Pilot Post #10  December 9,2008, 1:29pm
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Touché . But I do believe that the government would prefer us to be un-armed. And FYI the Iraqi people have been doing a pretty darn good job of fighting our tanks and planes with only AK-47s, some home-made bombs and a little inventive thinking. The key to defeating our military is to NOT use traditional ways of fighting. I believe almost anyone would be crushed by us in a traditional war, minus china and russia. The key is to demoralize and pester the American soldier. Make them afraid of what's around that next turn or behind that rail on the side of the road up ahead. And don't be so sure that an American General would not go along with a presidents biding. They are men of power and power currupts, some soldiers would follow and some would not. I would expect to see a split in the military if something like that happened. Infantry Division against Infantry Division. Wouldn't be pretty. But then again the military just might fall apart if something like that were to happen. I'm sure we will never find out though.


But I'll write the NRA and see what they have to say. LoL They preach more of the "personal protection" thing than a possible attempt to take over the government. I'm sure THAT wouldn't be too good for business.
See, I just don't understand the thinking behind you or I discussing "how we could defeat the American soldier." It's a non-issue. Never going to happen. Why? Because that soldier lives in this country, has his family in this country, and is never in a million years going to turn his gun on his own people unless they're trying to kill him. He's got as much right as anyone in the chain of command to refuse an unlawful order. "H*ll no, sir! I won't fire on my own people." So tome, it's a completely absurd argument that we need guns to protect ourselves from our own government.


"They" might prefer that we not have weapons, but IMHO it's for no other reason that the occasional crazy idiot shooting up a schoolyard makes for difficult politics - they have to look like they're doing something about a fundamentally intractable problem. That's inconvenient, it's uncomfortable, and there are a million ways for their politics to go wrong and endanger their re-election. Which, after all, is the prime thought in any politician's head - getting reelected.


Iraq is a poor example. We're not fighting a war over there, no matter what the politicians say. We're using our military to try and be a police force, and put great big gloves on them. The politically-convenient rules of engagement for our forces over there are the single biggest weapon the insurgents have. Even if somehow there was another civil war in the USA- and that's what you're talking about - it wouldn't be "us against the government". It would be, just like last time, states against states.


Besides, in the whole scheme of things in the world, overall, we've got it about as good as it gets. Anywhere. Sure this country has problems. But I'd rather live here, just as it is, than anywhere else. Why mess up a good thing?
 
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